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Banned
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Originally Posted by djtestudo
Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Hezbelluh, the so-called "wacko group", either under the protection, or supported by, Lebenon?
If so, then I don't see a problem.
Same with the governing body of the Palestinians allowing their terrorists to attack across the Israeli border they themselves have demanded be there.
If you don't want Israel attacking you, how 'bout not allowing these attacks? Israel isn't innocent in the grand scheme of Middle East politics, but it isn't as though they are trying to expand either.
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djestudo, please read as much as you can and consider what is reported today, in the context of what has come before. Read about Jinsa, and about AIPAC.
There is much willingness to post opinion here, but there was none when I posted about Jinsa and AIPAC and their influence on what "you know that you know". <b>Please consider the contradiction in the idea that what is good for Israel is good for the U.S., because it isn't.</b> Even if you only read the following highlighted phrases, you'll be exposed to scenarios that you may never have considered. Israel is out to maximize it's return on it's own efforts and interests, at our (U.S.) expense, if necessary. It spends the money and risks the lives of some of it's smartest and boldest people to appropriate U.S> military secrets, and industrial, technical, and commercial intelligence whereever it identifies target rich environs, including and even centering on the U.S.. Read about the man who recruited and ran Jonathan Pollard, Rafi Eitan, in the article below. The man has a constituency of senior citizens in Israel whose interests he now represents in the Knessett.
Eitan's old organization, the fighters who founded the modern state of Israel, were, by their own admission, (bottom of this post...) an organization that "The Palmach also launched violent guerilla warfare against the hostile British mandatory rule and its military war machine: destroying police stations and radar installations, sinking naval vessels, mining the railroad system, demolishing the border bridges and more."
I'm waiting to be labeled as anti-semetic in a future post....and if that is what an American who endeavors to be informed, who doesn't consider another country, a wealth, prosperous, regional military power. that send it's spies to mine sensitive and classified info from my country, lobbies incessantly and quites successfully for financial aid that it could pay for without pressuring Americans to issue new bond debt and then give it to Israel in the aid that AIPAC squeezes from our congress, <b>to be the good friend to the U.S. that so many here and generally in the U.S. are sure that it is, then I will wear that label, and consider the objectivity and knowledge of those who do the labelling.....</b>
Two sides and much distortion from both of them. I'm taking all of it with a grain of salt. Israel is much stronger, selfish and more belligerent than most here, believe. The Iraeli government and electorate is much better at working in it's own best interests, more often, than the governments or the electorate of any of it's neighbors, or of the U.S. We should sudy their strategy and tactics and always examine what parts the U.S. relationship with Israel is in our interest, and what parts aren't, and act accordingly. They do that, why don't we?
Quote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/com...821036,00.html
The framing of Hizbullah
Israel's response to its soldiers' capture is part of a hamfisted attempt to redraw the region's map
Amal Saad-Ghorayeb in Beirut
Saturday July 15, 2006
The Guardian
The capture of three Israeli soldiers by the Lebanese resistance movement, Hizbullah, to bargain for prisoner exchange should come as no surprise - least of all to Israel, which must bear its own responsibility for the abductions and is using this conflict to pursue its wider strategic aims.
<b>The prisoners Hizbullah wants released are hostages who were taken on Lebanese soil. In the successful prisoner exchange in 2004, Israel held on to three Lebanese detainees as bargaining chips and to keep the battle front with Hizbullah open. These detentions have become a cause celebre in Lebanon. In a recent poll, efforts to effect their release attracted majority support, much more even than the liberation of Shebaa Farms, the disputed corridor of land between Syria and Lebanon still occupied by Israel.
The domestic significance of these hostages is ignored by those who choose to reduce the abductions to an act of solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza.</b> Indeed Israel's media are aware of recent attempts to capture soldiers, including a botched attempt a few months ago in which three Hizbullah fighters were killed. Hizbullah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, confirmed the attack took five months to plan. Its timing was probably a coincidence. It would seem, though, Hizbullah exerts some influence over the fighters in Gaza - those who captured Corporal Shalit were at the very least inspired by Hizbullah.
The regional significance of the abductions has also been misconstrued. To suggest Hizbullah attacked on the orders of Tehran and Damascus is to grossly oversimplify a strong strategic and ideological relationship. Historically there has been an overlap of interests between Syria, Iran, Hizbullah and Hamas. Together they form a strategic axis - the "axis of terror" to Israel - that confronts US-Israeli designs to redraw the map of the region.
But the nature of that relationship has changed much over the years. Since Syrian forces left Lebanon, Hizbullah has become the stronger party. It has never allowed any foreign power to dictate its military strategy.
<b>It is ironic, given Israel's bombing of civilian targets in Beirut, that Hizbullah is often dismissed in the west as a terrorist organisation. In fact its military record is overwhelmingly one of conflict with Israeli forces inside Lebanese territory. This is just an example of the way that the west employs an entirely different definition of terrorism to the one used in the Arab world and elsewhere, where there is a recognition that terrorism can come in many forms.
The attempt to frame Hizbullah as a terrorist organisation is very far from political reality in Lebanon, from public opinion across the Arab and Islamic world, and from international law.</b>
Israel's disproportionate response to the soldiers' capture will have an impact on Lebanese domestic policy. Hizbullah has recently proposed a comprehensive national defence strategy; the Lebanese government has yet to come up with anything similarly convincing. If demands for a prisoner exchange are successful then it shows that what Hizbullah would term the logic of resistance is the most effective defence strategy. Israel's escalation has been a poor PR exercise. Even if it succeeds in showing the Lebanese people that Hizbullah can be a liability, this may well be cancelled out by Israel's own aggression, which will only confirm Hizbullah's repeated warnings of the constant threat posed by Israel.
· Amal Saad-Ghorayeb is assistant professor of political science at the Lebanese-America University. a.sghorayeb@gmail.com
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Quote:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/733784.html
<b>Just a farmer in Cuba</b>
By Gideon Alon
There is something misleading about Pensioners Affairs Minister Rafi Eitan. Perhaps because he has trouble walking, has poor vision and is hard of hearing, you expect him to be unfocused and to have a poor memory. But you soon discover that his memory is excellent, his thinking is quick and his responses are very sharp.
<h3>Eitan, who turns 80 in November, remembers in great detail events that happened more than 60 years ago when he was serving in the Palmach's Yiftah Brigade.</h3> He remembers exactly what he felt when he captured Adolf Eichmann in Argentina and what Yasser Arafat told him at their meeting in 1965.
<b>Of all the topics discussed during the interview, there was only one he adamantly refused to talk about at length - his relationship with Cuban leader Fidel Castro.</b> Eitan is a partner in a company that owns vast orchards in Cuba, but when asked about the secret of his ties to Castro, he answers: "There is no secret. It's simply not true. I don't work with Castro. I'm a farmer in Cuba. All the rest are bluffs by the press."
But you met a few times.
"The company deals with agriculture in Cuba, mainly with growing vegetables and producing citrus juice concentrate at the world's largest plant. I met Castro a few times, but we're not friends."
What kind of a person is he?
"Permit me not to talk about this. I don't want to."
Rafi Eitan was born Rafael Hantman on Kibbutz Ein Harod. When he was three, his family moved to Ramat Hasharon. As a young man, he volunteered for the Palmach and took part in the Leil Hagesharim operation and in freeing illegal immigrants from Atlit. During the latter operation, he lost almost all his hearing after a mine exploded near Yagur.
After the establishment of the state, he enlisted in the Shin Bet general security service and advanced to the position of deputy chief of the operations unit. From there he made his way to the Mossad. In 1960, he commanded the operation to capture Eichmann in Argentina.
"When I held his head, the words of the partisans' song were ringing in my head, 'Please don't say this is my last journey,'" he recalled.
Eitan was a special adviser to Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1975, and from 1977 was the counter-terrorism adviser to Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir. <H3>After that he served as head of the Defense Ministry's bureau for scientific relations (Lakam), an intelligence agency that worked on obtaining Western technologies for the defense industries. In this capacity he was responsible for recruiting and handling the American Jonathan Pollard, who was convicted of spying for Israel and has been in jail for 21 years now.</H3>
In 1986, he was appointed by Ariel Sharon to head Israel Chemicals, and upon his retirement in 1990, he entered the business world and became wealthy. According to various reports, he has been involved in oil deals, high-tech companies and, as mentioned, a large agricultural concern in Cuba. He has homes in Afeka and Kfar Vradim, and land in Kedumim. When he was elected to the Knesset, he transferred the management of his business interests to his son, Yuval.
<b>100 years of terrorism</b>
In 1982, you said we could expect another 100 years of terrorism. Have you changed your mind since then?
"No. It seems to me that the incident last week near Kerem Shalom proves what I said in 1982. My assessment stemmed from the structure of Palestinian society. Even today, the format is similar: there is a Hamas government, but it does not control its army; the one giving the orders is Khaled Meshal in Damascus."
"Even when Arafat built the preventive intelligence service, Fatah and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), he made sure each body would have one leadership in Palestine and one abroad. The moment the system is built this way, it has no chance of being controlled uniformly. In 1965, when I met with him, he told me that he would build a Palestinian system with many political bodies, but that each would have an independent military system, and each system would be divided into cells, and each cell would be independent - and only in that way would they have a chance of tossing the Jews into the sea."
Was it wise of Ehud Olmert and Amir Peretz to order the arrest of Palestinian ministers and parliament members in order to attain the release of the soldier Gilad Shalit?
"I said in the past that in a war against terrorism, all options are permissible. I don't want to answer your question specifically, because I think any comment by a minister on this subject can only be damaging."
If you were in their place, would you have ordered the IDF to enter Gaza?
"If I had to decide, I would have thought twice about going into Gaza with a large military force, or would have waited until I had the defensive means to deal with the Qassams appropriately, something I believe the IDF will have sooner or later. As a rule, I believe that in the long race against terrorism, defense must come first. We cannot kill all of our enemies, and therefore we must defend ourselves."
Do you think that Israel should negotiate with terrorist organizations for the release of the captive soldier?
"When I was the prime minister's adviser on terrorism, I preferred first taking defensive action and only at a later stage going on the offensive."
Is the fact that Olmert and Peretz lack security experience not to our detriment at the moment?
"Why do you think that citizens are incapable of dealing with security problems? Olmert and Peretz don't need to deal with tactics; the IDF has experienced and very capable commanders, and they are the ones who should do the job."
Don't you think that the flaws uncovered in the performance of the soldiers at Kerem Shalom indicate weakening discipline and worrying basic problems?
"I'm not familiar with all the details of the incident, but to judge by those around me - in other words, my children, grandchildren and their friends - I don't see any change in their attitude toward the army compared to ours. I want to reassure you that even in my time there were failures. Even in 1948, when we were fighting for our lives, there were incidents of soldiers falling asleep on guard duty. I would not under any circumstances draw conclusions from the incident at Kerem Shalom about the army as a whole. In my opinion, our systemic failure was that we were not wise enough to create tools to discover the tunnels ahead of time."......
......How do you explain your dazzling success in the elections?
"Kadima's formation and Arik's illness created a vacuum. People phoned me two weeks before the elections, such as my friend from the Mossad, Amos Manor, who told me: I'll vote either for you or for Uzi Dayan's list, whoever is going to pass the threshold. Apparently, my image was more appealing than Uzi Dayan's."
Do you really believe that the fact that someone like you headed the Pensioners' list is what gave the Gil party its big push?
<b>"If someone like me were not at the head of the party, we wouldn't have won seven seats." ........</b>
........How do you relate to the actions against you by the Public Committee to Free Jonathan Pollard - the appeal to the High Court of Justice against your appointment as a minister and the demonstrations in front of your home?
"With equanimity. These demonstrations are of no value. They don't help Pollard and they don't hurt me. This activity against me stems from a deep lack of understanding of the current situation."
They claim you did not act with the necessary diligence to free him from prison.
"That is not true. I was active on behalf of Pollard's release. Twenty years ago I openly stated that I accepted responsibility for his imprisonment. I did not place the blame on anyone else. When you engage in intelligence work, there are also failures."
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmach
......The Palmach in Politics and Culture
The Palmach was a left-wing organisation, associated with left-wing parties. Its members trained and lived in Kibbutzim, which were generally left-sympathetic. The political tendencies of its leaders such as Yigal Allon and Yitzhak Sadeh, was towards Mapam a left-wing party in opposition to David Ben-Gurion and the Mapai ruling party. Those tendencies caused Ben-Gurion to order the dissolving of Palmach in 1948.
Palmach members were not, however, a unified, homogeneous collective with a single ideology. In the early years of the state of Israel they could be found in all political parties.
Yigal Allon, considered by many to be the representative of the Palmach generation, never properly reached a position of national leadership, although he was Prime Minister for a few days between Eshkol's death and Meir's appointment in 1969. He died in 1980.
The best known Palmachnik in Israeli politics was Yitzchak Rabin of the Israeli Labour party. Others included Moshe Dayan, Chaim Bar-Lev and Mordechay Gur.
Palmachniks can be found everywhere in Israeli politics. Besides left-wing activists such as Mati Peled, Yair Tsaban and Shulamit Aloni,<h3> Palmach veterans include right-wing extremists such as Rehavam Zeevi and Rafael Eitan........</h3>
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Quote:
http://www.palmach.org.il/show_item....798&itemType=0
The Palmach (Hebrew abbreviation of Plugot Mahatz – פלוגות מחץ) was the elite striking force of the “Hagana” – the underground military organization of the Jewish community, its national institutions and the Zionist Movement prior to the establishment of the State of Israel.
The Palmach was founded in May 1941
(World War II) in order to help the British to
defend the country (then Palestine) against the
approaching German armies. In the fall of 1942,
as the threat of invasion receded, the British
authorities ordered the dismantling of the Palmach,
which caused it to go underground. It became a fully
mobilized voluntary force consisting of young men
and women, organized in six platoons and in special
companies: the “Palyam” (marine force),
the “Germans”, the “Arabs”, the aviators, and
the paratroopers who landed behind the German
lines in occupied Europe. The Palmach units were
stationed in Kibbutzim, where they underwent
military training but also worked on the farms,
14 days a month in order to support themselves.
They did not idolize military attributes but created unique social and cultural life.
From the summer of 1945 until the end of 1947, when the British administration suppressed the Jewish settlement movement and blocked Jewish immigration into the country, the Palmach was engaged in bringing 65 ships with tens of thousands of Jewish refugees and Holocaust survivors from Europe (Haapala - העפלה) illegally. <h3>The Palmach also launched violent guerilla warfare against the hostile British mandatory rule and its military war machine: destroying police stations and radar installations, sinking naval vessels, mining the railroad system, demolishing the border bridges and more.</h3>
At the same time, anticipating the withdrawal of the British and the subsequent Arab military uprisings, preparations were made to counter the attacks of local Arabs and of neighboring countries.
Following the U.N. decision of November 29, 1947 to partition Palestine, Arab armed gangs blocked the roads and besieged Jewish towns, including Jerusalem. At the time 2,200 Palmach fighters were the only force ready to engage in battle, though they were poorly armed. As the War of Independence unfolded, they operated all over the country, liberating Jerusalem and other besieged towns, conquering territories, opening roads and, with the newly organized “Hagana” troops, defeated the invading armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq. They fought valiantly but suffered many casualties – over 1,168 dead and hundreds wounded.
Upon the declaration of the State of Israel, May 15, 1948, ZAHAL, the Israel Defense Army (IDF) was established, founded on the infrastructure of the “Hagana” and its striking force, the Palmach. The three brigades – Harel, Yiftach and HaNegev, reinforced by new immigrants – were considered the elite units of the IDF until the end of the War of Independence.....
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Last edited by host; 07-15-2006 at 12:16 AM..
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