View Single Post
Old 07-03-2006, 01:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
pig
pigglet pigglet
 
pig's Avatar
 
Location: Locash
martian

first, i'd like to draw a distinction with something you included in your op: i don't think its accurate to state that all atheists necessarily believe that we are here simply due to random chance. as i understand it, atheism implies the lack of belief in a deity; i think this definition leaves a bit more room for inclusion of different spiritual/philosophical beliefs than what i could call strict reductionists who believe its all the result of some sterile process of physics.

in my own thoughts, i find that even the strict reductionist view requires its own brand of faith, which is inherent in the philosophical position. namely, it requires faith that the world of physics is sufficient to describe all that is occurring, and that cutting off one's search for knowledge at that point does not exclude information necessary for the pursuit of philosophical inquiry.

i personally view philosophy as the ultimate study of everything, such that all other studies fall under it in some fashion. thus, i view physicists as philosophers, whether they are aware of it or not; philosophers who study a particular branch of knowledge. i personally don't believe that this study of knowledge can be used to explain everything, but i also believe its a crucial piece of the puzzle. thus, i wouldn't put physicists at odds with philosophy, and i don't know that i would draw the distinction so clearly as one looking inwards, with the other looking outwards. i would argue that the knowledge gained by internal reflection is not valid if it doesn't match with outward perception; thus the "philosopher" must also look outwards. the physicist's interpretation of his/her perceptions are inherently altered by his own tools for perception and analysis, thus his rules and laws are inherently affected by his internal workings.

more specifically, for your question at the tail end of the op: i would tend to think that a person who accepts faith as a way to ascribe this sense of higher meaning you're talking about is putting the cart before the horse. i would tend to think that one should attempt to find the particular lense they view reality through first, whether that be a standard theistic belief, or another philosophical approach, first - then the views on questions of higher meaning would tend to follow from this.

as far as i can understand it, we are all part of a larger holarchial structure; accepting the terms we have created for our understanding of the world around us, we typically view subatomic particles to be constituents of atoms, atoms constituents of molecules, molecules constituent of biological structures, biological structures constituent of social structures, and so forth. we can view each as distinct strata in our knowledge of what we are a part of, and yet each can be broken into smaller pieces, and each makes up larger pieces. as such, i find some meaning in knowing that i am part of reality, and that as such many things occuring are essentially outside the scope of my ability to perceive them or have strong affects on them. i don't think this means i can't affect them at all, or that i have surrendered free will in the process, but that my potential affects are somewhat commisserate with where i fall in the scheme of things. i do not know that i find the type of meaning that you are talking about, as though it were part of a video game with a final level with a Big Boss to defeat or something of that nature. i think that one can find meaning in simply existing, and trying to bend your existance into alignment with your morals / ethics to the extent of your abilities, subject to moral constraints.

i also find it interesting that people who state that they have no faith, would seem to have faith in the simple fact that they do, in fact, exist at all and that reality is, well...real.
__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style
pig is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360