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guy44 · 06-30-2006, 10:20 PM

To get back to the initial post, I disagree with the statement that politics is so partisan because the right and left just refuse to listen to each other's valid points. In fact, I believe the hightened partisanship is the result of a long litany of things, including high incumbency rates, an incompetent media (or outright liars like Fox News), and the most despicable, rule-breaking Republican leadership in the House and Senate. Oh, and that Bush fella's doing a heck of a job, too.

But the point of my post is this: the left has had to listen to the right's talking points for years. Fox News. The House. The Senate. The White House. It simply isn't that both sides talk past each other; rather, the right spins and spins and spins and the left has had to shout as loud as it can at a Washington that has utterly ignored any opinions that diverge even minutely from the right's positions. The fact of the matter is that much of the right has taken to creating its own facts and long ago departed from the quaint realm I like to call reality.

I mean, let's take Iraq as an example as long as it is being debated here.

Despite all evidence - and facts, and reality - to the contrary, several of the folks from the "right" here on this board have stated their beliefs that WMDs did/do exist in Saddam's post-1991 Iraq.

Other folks on the "right" state - despite any and all evidence to the contrary - that those who wish for withdrawal "will not listen [to] reason, do not realize (or care) what would happen if we were just to pack up and leave tomorrow." What proof is there of this claim? I believe that those on the left have given the issue great thought. We obsess about this issue. We "bleeding hearts" care a great deal about what is best for this country and without a shred of supporting evidence are accused of not caring what happens to Iraq if we were to pull out. I can stand - in fact, encourage - debate over what our next step in Iraq should be. It's a complicated issue with a dizzying array of interests and difficulties to take into account. But to cut off debate by insisting that merely opposing the Bush administration's stance is to neither realize nor care what the consequences would be is simply unacceptable.

And of course, we could mention other things: like how the media, despite Republican control of Washington, Fox News, etc., is at fault for delaying progress in Iraq and Afghanistan; how things really are improving in those two countries; how al Qaeda and Saddam were linked; how Saddam helped in 9/11; etc.

I mean, the right wing lies outside this topic could span centuries to list (pick a topic, any topic). The point is, the left has a reputation for being boring policy wonks who study every detail of every proposal and equivocate when it comes time to choose a course of action. That stereotype is partially true.

But liberals DO NOT miss the "good points" made by the right the same way the right misses the "good points" made by the left. That is simply not true.

06-30-2006, 10:20 PM	#46 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	To get back to the initial post, I disagree with the statement that politics is so partisan because the right and left just refuse to listen to each other's valid points. In fact, I believe the hightened partisanship is the result of a long litany of things, including high incumbency rates, an incompetent media (or outright liars like Fox News), and the most despicable, rule-breaking Republican leadership in the House and Senate. Oh, and that Bush fella's doing a heck of a job, too. But the point of my post is this: the left has had to listen to the right's talking points for years. Fox News. The House. The Senate. The White House. It simply isn't that both sides talk past each other; rather, the right spins and spins and spins and the left has had to shout as loud as it can at a Washington that has utterly ignored any opinions that diverge even minutely from the right's positions. The fact of the matter is that much of the right has taken to creating its own facts and long ago departed from the quaint realm I like to call reality. I mean, let's take Iraq as an example as long as it is being debated here. Despite all evidence - and facts, and reality - to the contrary, several of the folks from the "right" here on this board have stated their beliefs that WMDs did/do exist in Saddam's post-1991 Iraq. Other folks on the "right" state - despite any and all evidence to the contrary - that those who wish for withdrawal "will not listen [to] reason, do not realize (or care) what would happen if we were just to pack up and leave tomorrow." What proof is there of this claim? I believe that those on the left have given the issue great thought. We obsess about this issue. We "bleeding hearts" care a great deal about what is best for this country and without a shred of supporting evidence are accused of not caring what happens to Iraq if we were to pull out. I can stand - in fact, encourage - debate over what our next step in Iraq should be. It's a complicated issue with a dizzying array of interests and difficulties to take into account. But to cut off debate by insisting that merely opposing the Bush administration's stance is to neither realize nor care what the consequences would be is simply unacceptable. And of course, we could mention other things: like how the media, despite Republican control of Washington, Fox News, etc., is at fault for delaying progress in Iraq and Afghanistan; how things really are improving in those two countries; how al Qaeda and Saddam were linked; how Saddam helped in 9/11; etc. I mean, the right wing lies outside this topic could span centuries to list (pick a topic, any topic). The point is, the left has a reputation for being boring policy wonks who study every detail of every proposal and equivocate when it comes time to choose a course of action. That stereotype is partially true. But liberals DO NOT miss the "good points" made by the right the same way the right misses the "good points" made by the left. That is simply not true. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"