Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FoolThemAll
Perplexing no matter how many times I hear it. Particularly with your figures, as it looks like they amount to saying that one out of a trillion same-sex marriage opponents manages to avoid bigotry - does this mean that you've cast judgment on people from a couple other planets besides Earth?
|
The numbers mean that i have never heard an argument against gay marriage that seemed reasonable or sufficient justification for depriving homosexuals of certain rights. I'm not an absolutist, though, so i left the door open with that really small number because i know that perhaps there is a good reason out there somewhere that i just haven't heard yet.
Quote:
|
I can only chalk up your experience to a lack or experience, a lack of diverse experience, or an inability/unwillingness to understand the non-bigoted opposition. Take your pick or supply me with your own explanation, because it's been more like 75/25 for me. A minority, to be sure, but sizable and - contrary to your implied assessment - existent.
|
Okay, so obviously your completely subjective experience is way more valid than mine. Wait, why is that again?
I would love to understand the nonbigoted opposition. I have tried and ultimately what it comes down to is that every argument i've heard that seeks to justify the marignalization of gays and gay rights is based on flawed logic, tyranny of the majority, or outright dishonesty. I would love to understand an argument that completely justifies the denial of the right of marriage between two men or two women. I would. Just because I feel like in doing so i would be seeing some sort of mythical creature. Like a unicorn.
Quote:
|
If you're to argue that 100% of them are wrong, I agree. But whether they fall into the definition fallacy, the "correlation = causation" Scandinavian fallacy, the slippery slope fallacy, or what have you, I've met quite a few same-sex marriage opponents that avoid any noticeable kind of bigotry. That don't show intolerance of homosexuals. That treat homosexuals as equals and friends. That even sometimes- believe it or not - aren't against completely equal rights for homosexuals. (It sometimes amazes me how much stock people on both sides put in a mere word.) They aren't bigoted in any meaningful way. You might as well label everyone you disagree with bigoted - it will dilute the word just the same.
|
I'm arguing that essentially 100% of the arguments are bigoted. I would also argue that essentially 100% of the arguments used against interracial marriage were bigoted.
Help me out. Explain to me a nonbigoted justification for opposing same sex marriage.
You may not see such rationales as bigoted. In my mind they are perhaps bigoted by definition. I used the numbers that i did because i have yet to hear a well reasoned, consistent, nonarbitrary reasoning for opposing gay marriage.
Quote:
|
While we're riding on the theme of people being able to believe whatever they want, I believe that people who assume bigotry in this context are on the same level as people who assume a hatred for America on the part of anti-war folk. The same careless and unimaginative level.
|
Fair enough, though to be sure, there are several reasonable arguments for why our current iraqian military endeavours are flawed. Like i said above, i have yet to hear a reasonable argument(reasonable enough to justify the denial of civil rights) for why gay marriage is bad.
I should also mention that i don't hate bigots. They have every right to believe what they want.