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Originally Posted by stevo
Pan, you left out the rest of the sentence. Jobs just paid $296,000,000 in taxes to the government. How you say he's getting out of paying taxes is beyond me. Steve Jobs was taxed 45.8% when he cashed out his stocks.
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If I'm the CEO of any company, trust me I would gladly pay 50% if I just cashed in $300+million.
I can also guarantee that had I cashed in all 10 million shares and not just my portion the price would have taken a bigger hit. I would have gotten less, and then taxed on that to where I probably would have paid more in taxes and made less money.
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I don't see the problem here. Instead of being paid a salary he's paid in 10million shares of restricted stock he couldn't sell for three years. After 3 years he sold the stock for cash. Explain to me again how this hurts apple. Explain to me again how the government lost tax revenue.
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If you truly read the post you could see I explained that. But here's a recap:
Quite simply, when 10 MILLION shares hit the market the price drops and Apple is responsible for buying the stock back. The other chunk, 4.57 MILLION shares was given to the government as STOCK. So they undoubtedly cashed it in for less than Jobs did. So to say they didn't lose any is a pipe dream, plus to say that they won't lose any from Apple's taxes (because the buyback of the stock is a tax write off to some degree) not to mention the loss that Apple takes paying to buy back that stock.
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wrong. The whole reason people buy stocks is to invest in companies. Of course people want a quick turn around but unless you're a short seller/day trader (which is a very small percentage of investors) you aren't expecting a quick buck and know you are in it for the long term (> 1 year). Companies still offer dividends, but that makes little difference and no matter what the dividend is, it doesn't keep people from selling the stock. the dividend is factored into the stock price.
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Ah but there in lies the rub, computer programs run the game now for the institutional investors and they buy and sell based on certain scenarios.... a CEO selling millions is a certain scenario.
Plus, while companies do still offer dividends (didn't say they didn't said they are a dying breed, I did), the dividends that most companies pay are truly nothing like they were. Before people could do well off the dividends, now, not so much. And don't give me the "inflation" BS because if that is the case then the divedends would have gone up also, instead they have increasingly shrunk.
Dividends use to show how secure a company was, and it encouraged the truly conservative investor.
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he cashed out slightly more than $600 million. What would you rather him do? not get paid? he could have taken a $200mil year salary and it would be roughly equal to his 10million shares of stock. the government would have still taken 45% of it. its not going to kill apple. people aren't getting laid off because steve jobs makes money. Do you think he does nothing? Do you think steve jobs isn't worth what he's paid? Apple thinks he is, or they wouldn't have paid him. apple is a successful company. the iPod and iTunes, Mac and MacBook, Mac OS X Tiger, etc. etc. Do you think steve jobs just plays golf all day smoking cigars, or do you think maybe the billions of dollars in profit generated from the sales of these products might have had something to do with steve jobs? Since 2003 apples profit has been in the billions of dollars - and you don't think its "fair" that steve jobs is compensated with a fraction of that? Because of him thousands of people have jobs and even more people are making money my investing in his company. Look at the stock price since 2003
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Thios was NOT an attack on Jobs personally, but on the system as a whole. Perhaps, Apple can afford it, but GM, Ford, Maytag, Sears/K-Mart, Enron, Adelphia, and so on might not be BUT they do it or have done it. And those companies are taking hits.
Wait until Apple has no money in R&D because they had to pay out the stock, or wait till Apple can't pay raises, hire good people in at competitive wages, this type of hit isn't going to show overnight, it will take time.
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Apple's a solid stock, its not prices too high. its P/E relative ratio is 23.8 its cash flow growth over the last five years is excellent, its EPS growth in the last 5 years is outstanding. (its over 100, 20 is good) Its EPS rank is 95, very very high.
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That's why in the last 6 months, even 3 months it has been dropping like a rock??????
If you look at the industry their P/E is roughly 5% higher than the industry average.
Please by all means invest your money into a company with at this moment in time a 30 P/E........... please.... invest your whole savings.... by all means try to prove me wrong about P/E.
(I think you'll see Apple fall to around 45-47/share before the next year.... but I maybe wrong.)
Stevo, I was in the stock business, I was a broker and I know what I am talking about. If you are so hot on it, invest in it and hold it for a year, I can almost guarantee that what Jobs has done will hurt the company and you'll see a loss, if you are very lucky the full ramifications won't have hit and you'll break even.
And again, this WASN'T just about Steve Jobs, it was about CEO's and what they are doing to their companies by using these tactics to avoid paying taxes. (And yes, it is to avoid paying taxes..... NO ONE ON THIS FUCKING PLANET NEED TO MAKE OVER $200 MILLION A YEAR...... HOW MUCH DID APPLE MAKE IN THOSE 3 YEARS?????????????????)
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My point - Steve Jobs direction of the company made this possible. If it wasn't for him apple would not see the profits or rise in stock price they have had over the last 5 years. He is justly compensated.
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He made $600 MILLION in 3 years, that's $200 million a year in those 3 years.... how much did Apple make? How much did they pay investors on the dividends????? How much of a percentage went to pay the worker bee? And how much as a percentage went into ONE MAN'S POCKET??????
That's what I thought.....