Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post

Sticky · 06-22-2006, 07:20 AM

WARNING - Long Post

Obviously a really tough question.

I am not positive of what my choice would be:
- I would really not know unless I was in the exact situation
- I think that there are so many things about the specific situation that would have an effect on the decision. For example:

What are the chances of survival for the wife? What are the chances of survival for the baby?

Do we already have any kids?

Has she had any pregnancies before?

What is the chance of her getting pregnant again?
Often in situations of difficult delivery (the OP was talking about a delivery) the woman may be left with the inability to have children in the future.

How would my wife react to loosing a child?
There are women who don't recover from a miscarriage. How would mine/your wife (or you) handle loosing a child during delivery.
There are a lot of peole who say that it is harder to loose a SO than a child. I disagree. Now I am not disagreeing with your choice in this thread just with the statement that it is harder to loose a SO.
Do the people who said this have children? There were probably some who did and some who did not.
There was someone who said that a SO is forever. I don't agree with this eaither.
While I personally see a SO as forever, divorce and infidelity (infidelity here = without the SO's approval) statistics don't seem to support this.

A child is forever. No matter what you do, once you have had a child, you have had a child. This cannot be erased.

Someone else said that there is no greatetr bond then between SOs. I disagree again. There is no greater bond than between a parent and child. This bond may even be one way (parent to child). In fact, it is possibly this onewayness (could not think of another word) that makes the connection so strong. A parent, in general, has such an uncoditional bond with their child with absolutely no expectation of anything in return. With an SO there is a two way bond and with a healthy relationship this twowayness (if I can make onewayness a word then why not twowayness) is needed.
The bond with an SO can so easily be broken. It begins to happen as soon as this twowayness ceases to exist or deteriorates. We see it all the time.
The bond with a child is never broken.
There is no greater pain in the world than seeing your own child suffer perhaps other than seeing your own child die. (thank god the previous statement does not come from experience)

SOs are meant to loose each other. It happens weveryday. It will continue to happen. At some point you will lose your SO or your SO will loose you. This is a normal life occurance. Of course loosing an SO during childbirth would be a tragically early separation from your SO but most people (and this is not empirical), after time (maybe a lot of time), eventually are able to move on.

Loosing a child is not normal. This should not happen, ever. This is not the natural course of nature. The pain that a parent must feel, which I hope to never know must be unbearable.

OK, so you will say "but the child is not born yet" or "but you don't know the child".
I may rationalize it like this as well but I am a man. I did not have the baby living in my body for the last 40 weeks. I did not have mornign sickenss becuase of the baby. I did not feel the baby move for the first time, from the inside, at around 16 to 20 weeks. I did not go to the doctor on a regular basis. I did not grow. I did not have to watch what I ingested (food, drink, or air) to ensure the baby was born healthy. I did not feel the baby's every movement later in the pregnancy. I did not know where in my body the baby's head, leg, arm, or but was (I don't know how my wife was able to tell the difference). I was not woken up in the middle of the night becuase the baby was squeezing my blatter. I did not have an arm or leg poke me so hard from the inside that roundness of my belly was replaced by the noticable shape of a potruding are or leg. I did not feed a baby from what I ate for 40 weeks. I did not incubate the life of another human being for 40 weeks. I did not have my water break. I did not go through hours of labour. I did not have to attempt to pass a baby through one of the smallest holes in my body.

I mention all these things to try to illustrate that the mother already has a bond/connection to that child.
When is the point that this unbreakable bond is forged.

I don't know. As a man, and a pretty logical type of person until the baby is born I would probably not have the same type of bond as a mother (and I could probably still never have that same bond).
But then again, what happens when I see the body of the dead baby. I know, it is hard to think about.
I think it would probably kill my wife to have to give birth to a baby that is already dead. You know that after a certain point you don't have an abortion anymore byt you have to deliver the baby.
Say for example that your wife (or you) wind out that you have cancer and it is pass the point in the pregnancy where they can abort the fetus and you choose to have chemo or a procedure that kills (for lack of being able to think of another word) the fetus - your wife (or you) will have to deliver the baby.

So I said all this and I still don't know what I would do in the situation. We can't know (even if you have talked about it) until faced with the decision. Hoepfully none of us will be faced with the decision.
(maybe I took the easy way out by not answering but I could definately see situations where I would make either decsion)
I will have to have the discussion with my wife.

Extra:
To illustrate the parent child bond somebody mentioned Sophie's choice (the situation was not the same though) with regards to choosing your life over your childs.
If someone came up to you with a gun and said "I will kill you or your child, you choose." I think the decision would be easy. Have him kill me instead of my child.

Sophie's choice was actually to choose which of her childre should live when forced into the decision by an SS officer (see the movie if you have not).
But I think the poster was just trying to point out that the decision we are talking about is "sophie's choice" type of decision.

Now I must do some work today.

06-22-2006, 07:20 AM	#44 (permalink)
Sticky	WARNING - Long Post Obviously a really tough question. I am not positive of what my choice would be: - I would really not know unless I was in the exact situation - I think that there are so many things about the specific situation that would have an effect on the decision. For example: What are the chances of survival for the wife? What are the chances of survival for the baby? Do we already have any kids? Has she had any pregnancies before? What is the chance of her getting pregnant again? Often in situations of difficult delivery (the OP was talking about a delivery) the woman may be left with the inability to have children in the future. How would my wife react to loosing a child? There are women who don't recover from a miscarriage. How would mine/your wife (or you) handle loosing a child during delivery. There are a lot of peole who say that it is harder to loose a SO than a child. I disagree. Now I am not disagreeing with your choice in this thread just with the statement that it is harder to loose a SO. Do the people who said this have children? There were probably some who did and some who did not. There was someone who said that a SO is forever. I don't agree with this eaither. While I personally see a SO as forever, divorce and infidelity (infidelity here = without the SO's approval) statistics don't seem to support this. A child is forever. No matter what you do, once you have had a child, you have had a child. This cannot be erased. Someone else said that there is no greatetr bond then between SOs. I disagree again. There is no greater bond than between a parent and child. This bond may even be one way (parent to child). In fact, it is possibly this onewayness (could not think of another word) that makes the connection so strong. A parent, in general, has such an uncoditional bond with their child with absolutely no expectation of anything in return. With an SO there is a two way bond and with a healthy relationship this twowayness (if I can make onewayness a word then why not twowayness) is needed. The bond with an SO can so easily be broken. It begins to happen as soon as this twowayness ceases to exist or deteriorates. We see it all the time. The bond with a child is never broken. There is no greater pain in the world than seeing your own child suffer perhaps other than seeing your own child die. (thank god the previous statement does not come from experience) SOs are meant to loose each other. It happens weveryday. It will continue to happen. At some point you will lose your SO or your SO will loose you. This is a normal life occurance. Of course loosing an SO during childbirth would be a tragically early separation from your SO but most people (and this is not empirical), after time (maybe a lot of time), eventually are able to move on. Loosing a child is not normal. This should not happen, ever. This is not the natural course of nature. The pain that a parent must feel, which I hope to never know must be unbearable. OK, so you will say "but the child is not born yet" or "but you don't know the child". I may rationalize it like this as well but I am a man. I did not have the baby living in my body for the last 40 weeks. I did not have mornign sickenss becuase of the baby. I did not feel the baby move for the first time, from the inside, at around 16 to 20 weeks. I did not go to the doctor on a regular basis. I did not grow. I did not have to watch what I ingested (food, drink, or air) to ensure the baby was born healthy. I did not feel the baby's every movement later in the pregnancy. I did not know where in my body the baby's head, leg, arm, or but was (I don't know how my wife was able to tell the difference). I was not woken up in the middle of the night becuase the baby was squeezing my blatter. I did not have an arm or leg poke me so hard from the inside that roundness of my belly was replaced by the noticable shape of a potruding are or leg. I did not feed a baby from what I ate for 40 weeks. I did not incubate the life of another human being for 40 weeks. I did not have my water break. I did not go through hours of labour. I did not have to attempt to pass a baby through one of the smallest holes in my body. I mention all these things to try to illustrate that the mother already has a bond/connection to that child. When is the point that this unbreakable bond is forged. I don't know. As a man, and a pretty logical type of person until the baby is born I would probably not have the same type of bond as a mother (and I could probably still never have that same bond). But then again, what happens when I see the body of the dead baby. I know, it is hard to think about. I think it would probably kill my wife to have to give birth to a baby that is already dead. You know that after a certain point you don't have an abortion anymore byt you have to deliver the baby. Say for example that your wife (or you) wind out that you have cancer and it is pass the point in the pregnancy where they can abort the fetus and you choose to have chemo or a procedure that kills (for lack of being able to think of another word) the fetus - your wife (or you) will have to deliver the baby. So I said all this and I still don't know what I would do in the situation. We can't know (even if you have talked about it) until faced with the decision. Hoepfully none of us will be faced with the decision. (maybe I took the easy way out by not answering but I could definately see situations where I would make either decsion) I will have to have the discussion with my wife. Extra: To illustrate the parent child bond somebody mentioned Sophie's choice (the situation was not the same though) with regards to choosing your life over your childs. If someone came up to you with a gun and said "I will kill you or your child, you choose." I think the decision would be easy. Have him kill me instead of my child. Sophie's choice was actually to choose which of her childre should live when forced into the decision by an SS officer (see the movie if you have not). But I think the poster was just trying to point out that the decision we are talking about is "sophie's choice" type of decision. Now I must do some work today. __________________ Sticky The Stickman