Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3
I planned on walking away from this discussion until I read your post.
Here is another perspective, an editorial from Investors Business Daily. They are as conservative as it gets. They agree that Iran wants bilateral talks with the US, but see it as a no-win situation for us. Seems that they think that Russia, China and the EU have the most to gain. Like me, they see little to feel good about. And, it is truely sad that about half of the people in this country have no faith that our President can do the right thing, Iran is smart enough to know that and will use the information.
http://www.investors.com/editorial/I...issue=20060526
If your were President what would you have to say to Iran? What would you negotiate? What do you want from them? What are you willing to give up? Would there be consequences? What would they be? I sure you, or anyone who agrees with your view, won't answer these questions, but at least it is food for thought.
Just for the record, this is bigger than Neo-Con v. Conservative v. Liberal. In my view this is like the Cuban Missle Crisis, handled well by a Democrat and the End of the Cold War, handled well by a Republican.
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It's not at all similar to what was happening in Oct., 1962.
I was in 5th grade, and I recall what happened clearly. Kennedy demonstrated that he was negotiating with Kruschev, in the best interests of the American people.
It is not possible for me to undermined Bush in his strategy with Iran. He does not represent my best interests, or those of my family, friends, or neighbors. He sold out most of our interests after 9/11, and probably before that. Bush is president of an elitist corporatist entity, not of the formerly existing government and it's constitution, that he swore on Jan. 20, 2001, to protect, preserve, and defend. That government was "planned" into irrelevance, it's gone.
My point was that, in the months following 9/11, there was, with the government of Iran, just as there was for the U.S. in it's relations with most other governments on the planet, an opportunity to buid co-operative relationships, and trust.
It was to the mutual benefit of both Iran, and the U.S., for example, to share information and work together to apprehend and neutralize the "evil doers" operating in or near Iran. That opportunity was squandered, and any hope for trust building is gone. It was inappropriate for the U.S. to allow the MEK to operate in Iraq, once the U.S. invaded and took "control".
I see no other conclusion that an informed person in the U.S. could draw, other than that, the neocons and their two former secretaries of defense, Rumsfeld and Cheney, have drawn on their past experience and ideology to bring the U.S. to it's present confrontation with Iran, and the circumstances that our military finds itself in now, positioned in Iraq and Afghanistan, directly east and west of Iranian borders.....with under 3000 American troops dead....so far, and with the U.S. military, industrial, intelligence, and security private business sectors flush with "no bid" contracts and profits, while the oil business and oil service multinationals that financially sponsered the candidacy of Bush/Cheney enjoy record returns and unprecedented opportunity for near term profits.
The new, 100 plus acre, 23 building, $1 billion dollar U.S. embassy complex, nearing completion now in Iraq is a sign of the success and permanency of this hidden strategy. Unfortunately....because corporatism and Israeli influenced ideology trumped what was in the best interests of the American people who are now saddled with the debts, and the casualties that the neocon agenda and it's implementation are costing, we the American people are not given an explanantion of the strategy and goals of the master plan.
We are to be exploited, just as the Iraqi people are. This "culture" of "leadership" always ends up with the profits from the no bid contracts that emerge from decisions of the key players, whether it is in Baghdad in april, 2003, when post invasion secuirty was "not planned for", or in Sept., 2005, when political appointees, Chertoff and "Brownie" failed to respond in a timely and organized manner to the N.O. Katrina disaster.
An alternative view would require making an argument that these guys are sincere but inept, have the best interestd of the American people in mind, appointed the best people that they could find to manage Iraq occupation and reconstruction, Katrina disaster and reconstruction response, the awarding of government contracts in Iraq, the Gulf coast post Katrina disaster, and in Homeland security and the "war on terror".
I can't make that case, because....when I follow the money, I see all the "no bid" contracts, the "planning" that seems at every turn, to make more of these contracts neccessary, the disappearance of $9 billion of Iraqi oil money, the near shutdown of post invasion Iraqi oil output that caused oil profits to transfer from the pockets of the American public into the pockets of Bush's campaign contributors, due to an unpredicted scarcity of oil....a scarcity that the invasion "plan" was predicted to reverse, after the ousting of Saddam and an ifusion of western capital and knowhow "poured in" to modernize and mazimize Iraqi oil production.
For us.....the average U.S. joe sixpack, everything that these folks have done, seems to have turned to shit....diplomacy, the war on terror, FEMA, the $2.5 trillion in new federal debt, the 20,000 war wounded troops, the direction of our paper currency, and our health and retirement benfits and prospects for high paying jobs for labor union members.
For them....and their rich supporters.....look at where they are, as far as their consolidation of political and law enforcement power....how much money they're making from all of these "setbacks", and how their tax obligation stacks up now, compared to when they took over on Jan. 20, 2001.
Too many gains for them.....and too many setbacks for the bulk of us Americans and the rest of the world (except for Israel) to be dismissed as coincidence or baseless conspiracy theory.
Iran is surrounded by U.S. ground troops and land based air force assets, the business folk closest to Bush/Cheney enjoy record profits and low taxes, and the POTUS enjoys the fewest checks and balances and the least constitutional restraint on his presidency than has been observed, with the possible exception of Lincoln and FDR. The oil industry enjoys record sustained prices...the kind that oil services companies like Haliburton can use to attract new investors and ramp up the
scale of their service capabilities. The stock, HAL was in the low 20's on the eve of the Iraqi invasion....it's in the $70's now!
I submit that all of the above "results" are by design, and that the key goals that result in the direction that money and power flow in, have all been achieved, according to plan. Our best interests were never planned for....just theirs!
Can you make an argument that the post Iraq invasion, the rebuilding of Iraqi oil production, the pacification and reconstruction of post war Afghanistan, Iraq, and post Katrina Gulf coast, not to mention the "war on terror", intelligence management "reform", energy and budget policy, port and "homeland" "security" have all just "gone wrong" due to poor planning or via misguided but via an administration sincerely interested in the "public good"? To do that, you have to tell us why the money and the power has landed where it has, with such precision, and consistemcy......