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Originally Posted by ObieX
What we're talking about is making a renewable fuel yes. But a renewable/cleaner fuel that would mainly be used in cars. Basically something to just power something really big and portable (can't exactly plug it in). What it takes to make that kind of energy doesnt really matter.
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yeah, actually it does. If you pollute more or use more unrenewable energy to make the fuel than you would use or pollute with the fuel you're replacing, then there's no point.
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If you have to use solar power to power the plants to pump out the ethanol to fuel your cars then thats what it takes.
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Now you're getting on the right track. . .but you're also proving my point. If we got solar plants up and running (and keep in mind that making solar cells is a very pollution-intensive process so you've gotta factor THAT in as well) to fully power the ethanol/biodiesel plants (and assuming we run ALL the shipping of the ethanol on either ethanol or biodiesel) then maybe we'll have something. BUT, we're not there yet, so to force that energy form on the public when it's not doing what the public is being told it is doing, is not only dishonest, but stupid.
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Its better than driving around in a coal powered car, for example.
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Well. . yeah I suppose. . . but since coal-fired cars are pretty rare, that's not really something we need to worry about.
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Engines are getting better and better at using their fuel as well, so ethanol doesn't need to be as powerful.
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That's where you're wrong. Yes, it does. Engines are getting better and better at 87-93 octane gasoline. NOT 105 octane ethanol. This is why flex fuel vehicles get worse gas mileage running on E85 than they do running on real gas.
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Also when it comes to transportation of the ethanol you don't need to use fossil fuels. The transportation of the ethanol takes big trucks.. and you can fill those with biodiesel which you can literally make out of pretty much any type of organic marterial.
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This is true, but then you have to factor in the energy used to produce the fuel used by the trucks, and subtract that from the gained energy side of the equation.
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So there ya go. renewable fuel.
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Some day, yes, absolutely. Today, not happening.
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I don't give a rat's ass about the farmer politick or what it takes to get a senator or member of congress re-elected.
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Well, if you want us to start buying biomass for ethanol from foreign countries, you'd better start giving a rat's ass, because it's not happening without the politicians, and they're not gonna do it if it'll blow their chances of getting re-elected.