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The_Jazz · 05-03-2006, 06:57 AM

I guess that I see a difference between say, AT&T keeping a log of what I do online (which they're already doing for their own protection anyway) and the government. FedEx and UPS keep a log of every shipment that I send and receive, and the government needs a warrant to access those records. The phone company keeps a record of all my inbound and outbound calls and the government needs a warrant. The toll authority keeps a record of every time my car goes through a checkpoint for billing purposes and the government needs a warrant. Hell, the grocery store AND my credit card company keep a record of what I buy whenever I use my cards at the store. Guess what the government needs to get those record.

There's nothing in the Constitution that says that Americans can't gather information on each other, and that includes corporations. However, if the government wants access to those records, they have to have a warrant. The government already mandates how long certain records are kept - for instance a company that recalls a product has to keep maintain records of how that recall went (and update them as the recall progresses) forever. There isn't much difference now except that the government is the primary (but not sole) beneficiary of permanently maintained records. In theory you should now be able to get your provider to send you a record of the email that your deceased Great Aunt Tilly willing you her haunted mansion if your computer crashes and you lose it. I see no difference.

My understanding of the wiretap scandal has the White House telling the NSA that they don't need to go through the trouble of getting warrants from the special court system set up to grant those warrants even though they are allowed retroactively (i.e. they can listen to my call today and get the warrant tomorrow legally).

05-03-2006, 06:57 AM	#30 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	I guess that I see a difference between say, AT&T keeping a log of what I do online (which they're already doing for their own protection anyway) and the government. FedEx and UPS keep a log of every shipment that I send and receive, and the government needs a warrant to access those records. The phone company keeps a record of all my inbound and outbound calls and the government needs a warrant. The toll authority keeps a record of every time my car goes through a checkpoint for billing purposes and the government needs a warrant. Hell, the grocery store AND my credit card company keep a record of what I buy whenever I use my cards at the store. Guess what the government needs to get those record. There's nothing in the Constitution that says that Americans can't gather information on each other, and that includes corporations. However, if the government wants access to those records, they have to have a warrant. The government already mandates how long certain records are kept - for instance a company that recalls a product has to keep maintain records of how that recall went (and update them as the recall progresses) forever. There isn't much difference now except that the government is the primary (but not sole) beneficiary of permanently maintained records. In theory you should now be able to get your provider to send you a record of the email that your deceased Great Aunt Tilly willing you her haunted mansion if your computer crashes and you lose it. I see no difference. My understanding of the wiretap scandal has the White House telling the NSA that they don't need to go through the trouble of getting warrants from the special court system set up to grant those warrants even though they are allowed retroactively (i.e. they can listen to my call today and get the warrant tomorrow legally). __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo