I normally don't like going point-for-point like this, but there's too much to cover... (and i apologize that it's so damn LONG, but it happens.)
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Originally Posted by Topper
Okay, but what's funny? What makes the perpetrator something to be admired and laughed with (see the posts in this thread which I'm referring to)...
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I'm not sure what makes it funny to other people, maybe their perceived stupidity is laughable? For me, I don't find humor in it because a crime was still committed and two women were violated- regardless of whether or not they should have known better.
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And where is the compassion in us if we dismiss total responsibility off on the victim, as if it really is their entire fault? Your reasoning also could easily be applied to many cases of sexual assault and rape where the victim “brought it on themselves”. Perhaps you feel the same way if a girl is foolish and gets date raped. I don’t know.
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I wouldn't at all attempt to compare this scenario to the level of manipulation that occurs with date rape. I would never call the victim of date rape foolish- i'm not sure any rational people would. Date rape, etc., is still a forced act, or an act carried out under protest. This is clearly different, as they initially gave consent because of cluelessness, total lack of common sense, etc. You can't equate this to a drunk girl who says "yes" because she is impaired- unless it turns out these women are, in fact, severely undereducated.
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You are assuming everyone knows what you do, or has the same level of common sense, or even has the capacity to learn as you can. That’s not reality. People are going to make poor choices everyday. Should we just not care at all about what happens to those people?
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I'm not assuming anything, I'm going by what was actually written in the article. I'm working with the fact that the women admitted the man into their homes, and then allowed him to perform his perverse acts. I'm pretty much positive that were there any significant mental handicaps involved, the news agency would be all over it- because then it would be WAY more sensational of a story. If there are further reports that indicate poor english and bad levels of poverty, I have not seen them posted here and have not heard of them existing elsewhere, and I have to go on the only information available.
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If I bought a women a drink at a bar, common sense says don't accept drinks from strange men at bars unless you've seen it poured, because it could be drugged. But that's not something you'd know unless you were informed. Your brother was told these NYC cardinal rules beforehand I assume right? Or did you expect him to know this at birth?
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This is where I'll answer to who determines "common sense". I could say that it SHOULD be common sense to not take drinks from strangers, but I don't think it *is* common sense. Why? Experience. I don't think it's been a *problem* for long enough that people necessarily *know* it. Basic "common sense" normally includes things based on privacy, or personal safety- don't get naked for random people without checking out the situation first, don't walk out into highway traffic- stuff like that. Other "common sense" things are learned person by person and, over time, ingrained into overall societal knowledge. I can't imagine anyone formulating an argument that sways me from believing that "taking your clothes off for random people claiming to be doctors who show up at your door uninvited" ISN'T common sense.
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This does not even address my point of people who really will never get it, and really are just plain stupid. Thoughts on that? Do they get what they deserve if they are victimized. You aren't saying that but other people in this thread have.
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Yeah, It sucks that it happened, and although i said I can't feel sympathy for people that stupid, I didn't mean to imply that i didn't identify them as victims. Keep in mind, too, that it was pretty much voluntary until he fingered them ("genital examination", my eye) and they finally took a hint. I feel bad that it happened, but "sympathy" for such a blatant lack of common sense... it's difficult.
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Try for one second forgetting what you know. You check the ID's of maintenance people you call, well I know you weren't checking ID's from the day your were born. This is something you learned, and had the ability to retain.
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I'm not being crass, but I was taught from a very early age those types of things- people coming to your home should have a reason to be there, and if you're in question of their credentials, call the police. This should be common sense. Allowing John Q. Fingerbanger into your home because he says he's a doctor is stupid, stupid, stupid. I can't imagine a possible explanation of any way such a random visit by a stranger would be legitimate.
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....Is no sympathy really warranted?
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It's very difficult to feel sorry for such stupid decisions. Unless it's quoted as otherwise from another news source, I have to go on what I initially read, which did not indicate any reason for these women to be so unaware of what was going on.
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I've maintained only two real thoughts throughout this thread-
A. Nothing is funny about this "genius"
B. There is reason to have sympathy for these "dumb", "idiot" "clueless" women (you may not feel it, but there is still a reason)
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I agree, I think he intended to sexually molest the women under the guise of being a kindly, humanitarian doctor and carried out his molestation. I don't find anything funny about it, either. He should be fully charged for his crimes, no question.
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In this case these women are poor, don't speak much English, and probably have no idea what standard medical practices are in this country. They very likely DON'T know that "home breast exams don't happen" as you pointed out earlier. Likely they thought "wow this is such a great country with caring people". Well now I'm sure they see the light. If you can call that "light".
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I can't answer to this, because i'm not sure what info you're referring to- it's not been posted here, so I'm lost as to where you got this.