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Originally Posted by crossova
The phone call at 32000 feet, i thought came from Flight 93.
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We haven't been discussing Flight 93. We've been discussing the particulars of Flight 77. The original post limited discussion to Flight 77, and that's what I've been basing my arguements upon. If you'd like to start discussing Flight 93 and the particulars of it, please post something to that effect and what you do or do not believe. Sorry, I just can't change gears like that.
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Originally Posted by crossova
That does look like a piece of the plane...very convenient. It reminds me of the indestructible passport of one of the alleged terrorist that was found about four blocks away from the WTC. They can find a booklet of paper that was in an area of 2000 degree temperature but can't find enough of the plane to reassemble from that crash.
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Sorry that it's inconvenient to your theory, but unfortunately, there are pictures of identifiable airplane parts on the Pentagon lawn. The other parts in the foreground could be airplane parts as well, but I don't have the knowledge base to tell you what those other pieces may or may not be. It would be easy to imagine that there could be servo motor parts or hyrdaulic line laying around that neither of us can identify because we just don't know what it looks like. Based on that picture, I think that you've now got the impossible task of proving a lack of a plane when there's clear evidence of a plane crash at the site.
As far as your comment about the WTC crash, I really think that you need to go take some physics lessons since your ignorance of the subject is affecting your ability to understand the possibilities. That's not a slam or a flame, just a request that you educate yourself. As far as this particular fact, let me explain it -
In the crash of Flight 175, in some of the pictures you can pretty clearly see the nose of the plane emerging from the side opposite the strike site along with a large debris cloud followed by the flames of the ignition of the fuel. There's no reason to believe that Flight 11 behaved any differently. Let's assume that it was moving at the same speed as the Pentagon plane, which is 550 mph. The WTC was not designed to withstand the same stresses as the Pentagon, and the load-bearing structures were primarily focused on shifting the weight downwards with some ability for lateral movement for wind. These load bearing structures were pillars where the Pentagon uses entire walls as load bearers which includes the inner core of the building, which provided most of the support and caused the ulitmate failure of the structure. The facade of the WTC provided little structural support (it was less than a few inches thick) since that was the job of the steel skeleton. When the plane impacted, it sliced through the facade fairly easily and continued on through the structure where the main decelerator was the concrete floor and decking. As the plane plowed through building, portions were separated from the rest plane as they were scraped off, but most of them would not have lost all of their velocity, only some, until they struck the central core. The floors would have pretty quickly forced the plane into the most efficient shape possible to travel through the space (until encountering a new obstacle that is), although there certainly would have been some disintegration as various pieces were subjected to centrepetal forces and stationary object strikes. Most notably, it would have pushed other material ahead of it along with anything that decelerated slower than the rest of the plane.
The debris cloud that emerged on the other side of the building was probably made of pieces of the plane that did not encounter any structural supports along with any interior debris that was caught up with the plane and acelerated to roughly the same speed as the now-decelerating plane. The fireball would have been necessarily behind the nose of the plane since that's where all the fuel was. At least some of the hijackers had to be in the front of the plane (they were flying it, after all). They most likely had their passports on their persons. It's entirely possible that the passport traveled through the building as a part of the plane or debris cloud and then emerged on the other side. Given that 4 blocks in Lower Manhattan is about 1/4 mile, I have no problem seeing a passport traveling that distance if it managed to decelerate faster than the rest of the plane and become mixed with the debris field being pushed ahead of the plane. It's not the most likely outcome, but it's not impossible.
Edit - one other thing - the passport in question was not "undamaged". The pictures I've found show a pretty heavily damaged picture with about 30-40% missing.