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The_Jazz · 04-14-2006, 04:51 AM

dksuddeth - I have to take issue with one of your examples. The Soviet Union did indeed ban gun ownership in 1929, but it was not universal and didn't apply to party members. The purges that you mentioned actually started well before 1929, and there were mass arrests of Whites (monarchists) and members and supporters of the Provisional Government as early as 1919 and lasted until 1924. The various purges of 1929 to 1953 were primarily aimed at party members, who were allowed the right by the 1924 constitution. Also the 20 million "dissidents" is a misleading statement since people arrested from 1934-37 were primarily loyal party members (up to that point anyway) with an estimated 7.5M arrested during that 4 years period and also includes the 1938-39 Army purge whose victims were most certainly armed. There's also the glaring omission that gun ownership in the early Soviet period was quite uncommon, especially among the eventual victims of the various purges who tended to be middle and upper class (in Soviet standards, not pre-Revolutionary Russian it's important to note).

Glaring errors like that make me doubt the rest of your statistics (or rather Geoff Metcalf's, who seems to be the basis for that post).

I agree that we all have and should continue to have the right to bear arms, but I am all for the invokation of the "well-regulated militia" portion of the amendment. I would like to see gun owners required to take training classes every few years and prove their accuracy on a range as well. Gun safes, trigger locks and other safety devices should be required to be used in every home where children are present, and armed parents should have to undergo special training on the dangers of kids and guns. You can own all the guns you like, but let's all be sure that you know how to safely operate and maintain them all.

I also think that there should be stiffer penalties for those who facilitate straw purchases and the like, but that's another discussion.

04-14-2006, 04:51 AM	#48 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	dksuddeth - I have to take issue with one of your examples. The Soviet Union did indeed ban gun ownership in 1929, but it was not universal and didn't apply to party members. The purges that you mentioned actually started well before 1929, and there were mass arrests of Whites (monarchists) and members and supporters of the Provisional Government as early as 1919 and lasted until 1924. The various purges of 1929 to 1953 were primarily aimed at party members, who were allowed the right by the 1924 constitution. Also the 20 million "dissidents" is a misleading statement since people arrested from 1934-37 were primarily loyal party members (up to that point anyway) with an estimated 7.5M arrested during that 4 years period and also includes the 1938-39 Army purge whose victims were most certainly armed. There's also the glaring omission that gun ownership in the early Soviet period was quite uncommon, especially among the eventual victims of the various purges who tended to be middle and upper class (in Soviet standards, not pre-Revolutionary Russian it's important to note). Glaring errors like that make me doubt the rest of your statistics (or rather Geoff Metcalf's, who seems to be the basis for that post). I agree that we all have and should continue to have the right to bear arms, but I am all for the invokation of the "well-regulated militia" portion of the amendment. I would like to see gun owners required to take training classes every few years and prove their accuracy on a range as well. Gun safes, trigger locks and other safety devices should be required to be used in every home where children are present, and armed parents should have to undergo special training on the dangers of kids and guns. You can own all the guns you like, but let's all be sure that you know how to safely operate and maintain them all. I also think that there should be stiffer penalties for those who facilitate straw purchases and the like, but that's another discussion. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo