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Originally Posted by roachboy
the minutemen website is full of very typical combinations of issues and ways of framing them---they are not explicitly presenting themselves as a militia outfit, but politically they are one.
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A real militia is not political. A real militia is there as the final security of the nation. The rest of the propaganda that you're read/heard about in the media/books is nothing more than an attempt to demonize a group that doesn't subscribe to the philosophy of the mainstream. Those that express themselves politically, or in ways to promote an agenda, are not a militia, they are just armed fanatics whose sole intent is to force others to live according to what THEY think is the right way.
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Originally Posted by roachboy
but for an example: if you look at the long string of articles that justify the patrol of the borders, notice the way in which "real americans" gets used.
who are "real americans" anyway?
who decides that?
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We do, the people. with our laws.
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Originally Posted by roachboy
and that the whole logic of defending "real americans" from immigrants is xenophobic.
and that the minutemen is a xenphobic group.
this does nto account for the complexity of motivations that would bring folk to such a position--it simply describes the position itself.
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Why do you continue to misrepresent this group as xenophobes? The minuteman project has NEVER been about keeping america 'all white', like a box of popeyes chicken. The minuteman project does not care about LEGAL immigration, its ILLEGAL immigration and the over burdening costs that come with it that they have a problem with.
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Originally Posted by roachboy
you can see parallel logic at work in dk and dunedan's posts. that is as far as i would go in characterizing either of these personae as human beings---there is not way to go further and be coherent.
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that sounds like you saying there is no other way for you to refute the points in our argument without you referring to us with ad hominen insults.
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Originally Posted by roachboy
and i am agnostic about gun control myself.
for that i would assume that i would be one of those "hypocrite elitists" or something.
you know, dk, what's good for the goose.....
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That would depend RB, you say you are agnostic about gun control, broken down that tells me that you don't care one way or the other if it works, or don't believe one way or the other that it works. Thats fine, lots of people feel the same way and I wouldn't begrudge you that position. You say you don't like guns, thats fine also. Lots of people don't and I wouldn't begrudge you that position. When I refer to the 'hypocrite elitists', I refer to people like Sen. Feinstein, who espouses gun control and banning all private forms of firearm ownership if she could with one side of her mouth, while the other talks to the county sheriff to renew her concealed handgun permit. Rosie O'Donnel, who feels that anyone who owns a gun should go to prison yet hires armed bodyguards for her and her children. The list goes on. If you don't believe in gun control, don't like guns, and don't own one yourself, you would not be in that list.