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roachboy · 03-22-2006, 04:57 PM

occasionally in here--and in other forums---people float arguments that are rooted in or that reproduce racist assumptions.
i see no problem with saying as much.

with some boundary understandings in mind:

there is a huge difference between saying that an argument is racist and saying that the person is--first it is stupid to move from what you read to what you think the person writing *is*--second it is often the case that the racism in a given argument is not taken on as such, or not seen, because that argument enables an ordering of information that is thought about in wholly different ways--that is the racist component of an argument might operate as a linking term and not as the center of an argument.

in the present context, particularly with reference to arguments directed at muslims, i see no problem with linking american arguments to their neofascist analogues in a western european context. same distinctions as above apply in that case--often the repetition is unwitting--the implications are not seen or thought through because the american political context does not name arguments in the same way or stage their implications in the same way.

to link an anti-muslim argument to western european neofascist organizations, to show the parallels, is often simply a matter of fact. dont believe me---look for yourself. the front national website is mostly available in english.

i try to keep the seperation of critique of a post from a critique of the person making the post strict--but i also know that it is difficult to maintain in the writing and is probably even more difficult to register if your post is the object of this kind of critique. so this is not a route i go down without cause. in this kind of situation, it is an abuse of that goofy godwin thing to try to shut down a whole range of critical responses to particular types of post. it seems to me little more than a call for censorship of such critiques to try it.

03-22-2006, 04:57 PM	#44 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	occasionally in here--and in other forums---people float arguments that are rooted in or that reproduce racist assumptions. i see no problem with saying as much. with some boundary understandings in mind: there is a huge difference between saying that an argument is racist and saying that the person is--first it is stupid to move from what you read to what you think the person writing is--second it is often the case that the racism in a given argument is not taken on as such, or not seen, because that argument enables an ordering of information that is thought about in wholly different ways--that is the racist component of an argument might operate as a linking term and not as the center of an argument. in the present context, particularly with reference to arguments directed at muslims, i see no problem with linking american arguments to their neofascist analogues in a western european context. same distinctions as above apply in that case--often the repetition is unwitting--the implications are not seen or thought through because the american political context does not name arguments in the same way or stage their implications in the same way. to link an anti-muslim argument to western european neofascist organizations, to show the parallels, is often simply a matter of fact. dont believe me---look for yourself. the front national website is mostly available in english. i try to keep the seperation of critique of a post from a critique of the person making the post strict--but i also know that it is difficult to maintain in the writing and is probably even more difficult to register if your post is the object of this kind of critique. so this is not a route i go down without cause. in this kind of situation, it is an abuse of that goofy godwin thing to try to shut down a whole range of critical responses to particular types of post. it seems to me little more than a call for censorship of such critiques to try it. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 03-22-2006 at 05:02 PM..