back from work,
debaser,
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Muhammad did not invent the concept of the seven layers of Heaven. He merely parroted it without understanding the Pagan origin of this idea. He wrote:
“So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars… “(Fussilat 41: 12)
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Muhammad did not invent. How can he invent when he was a poor goat herder and he could not read or write to get this data. Also the layers, atmospheres, above earth are 7. I named them in a previous post. Also when God said he created 7 earths other than earth, indeed, it was 7 earths. He did not tell us where but if we name the planets we can see:
Mercury
Venus
Earth
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn
Neptune
Pluto
The number is 8 - earth = 7 earths. So as we see, I analyze from he Quran and the number of 7 earths also is mentioned with the 7 heavens. Now since they are 7 planets other than the earth, then it can be the heavens of these 7 planets, or skies. So God might have referred to the 7 heavens as our atmosphere, 7 layers or the 7 planets other than earth. But these are verses that came on the prophet and were left to people to know, in time.
But in either case, both 7 heavens meanings are correct.
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Originally Posted by nanotech
Whales are mammals, humans are mammals, why didn't some people who supposedly inherited from whales did possess this ability to communicate via sonar?
Because we don't live underwater.
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But that doesn't explain it. Lets say some humans lived under water some hundreds of thousands years ago, why no phossil of them.
Give me a previous version of humans. If there where many previous versions of humans, how come they are all dead and all what remains is the humans there are in this world?
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Originally Posted by nanotech
If humans came from evolution, why doesn't science find 1, 3, 4 legged or 4 handed people in the museum. or one eyed people? Why no one eyed people? God created people with 2 eyes from the beginning because 2 eyes are needed to calculate distance and because of other things. Such as a backup system if one eye gets hurt. Shouldn't evolution have made 1 eye first as a first version of human vision? and perhaps later, it evolved into 2 eyes?
What is the advantage of 1, 3, or 4 legs (although our arms are actually legs, technically) over our current form?
Protozoans do have one photoreceptor, the organelle that evolved into eyes. More advanced microbes have two of these so they can move toward or away from light. The species we evolved from already had binocular vision.
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So you know say we come from Protozoans. what about viruses. what about aliens.
YOU CANNOT CREATE INFORMATION WITHOUT INFORMATION. The genes cannot "INVENT" code. you cannot get another eye when there is only one eye, and then have 2 eyes work with each other smoothly and create an image in the back head of the brain that is 2 dimensional as the brain works.
Let’s say that 2 eyes where made by evolution which is not possible. HOW and HOW did the brain know that 2 eyes can be used to calculate distance?
How did the brain learn that it can make these 2 eyes focus, how does it know, by itself, how to calculate the strength of the muscles of the lenses in the eye so that it can focus?
If you are saying the human came from a creature that had 2 eyes in the beginning. How come this creature came with 2 eyes in the beginning with lenses, the ability to focus and calculate the distance from the focusing?
Evolution cannot program new programs, "Gene Codes"
Evolution does not have a brain to think with
Evolution does not have intelligence
Evolution is not smart
Evolution doesn't think ahead
Therefor => Evolution did not create
Evolution Exists
Evolution improves the "ALREADY EXISTING GENETIC CODES" of creatures and hence we get better breeds.
But EVOLUTION DOES NOT CREATE.
Nezmot,
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I was trying to say was that appropriating someone else's belief structure (like nanotech has done here, by appropriating 'science') and then twisting it to tell untruths, is always going to be a controversial tactic, and one that is bound to upset people. I explained that I was upset by it. And I am. If that's an insult then I am sorry.
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All I give is scientific evidence, miracles of time, videos containing miracles of time and my own analysis. And you come up with your idea that I'm twisting facts to tell untruths.
Why would I make up truths? What have I to come here and waste my time and tell you evidence from the Quran? Why would I twist facts or lie?
I have not been and will never be a liar, "with God's help". I believe in God and lying is considered the biggest sin in Islam.
From the Hadeeth; a man came to Mohammad and asked him. Can Muslim steel and he would still be considered a muslim? Prophet Mohammad did not want to answer the questions although he knew the exact answer. Because they were would deter people from faith. But the person insisted. The prophet said yes. The person said: "can he commit adultery and still be considered a Muslim?" Same thing, the prophet said yes.
The final question was "can the Muslim lie and still be considered a Muslim?"
The prophet said 3 times:
A Muslim does not lie!
A Muslim does not lie!
A Muslim does not lie!
So I'm saying this to tell you that I don't lie. If I'm mistaken by something it is because I'm mistaken by it, nothing more.
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How can dolphins use sounds to communicate, and hunt for food.
2 dolphins can communicate 200 Kilometers away from each other in the sea; by the use of the sonar waves.
This is one of your tangents again - how is this relevant?
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This is not a tangent; it is to show you a miracle. What about waves, sounds of other dolphins and sea animals how can 2 dolphins understand each other 200 miles in the sea?
How can dolphins communicate? It means they have intelligence.
Are they not animals? Yes they are animals
So it means they have intelligence but not evolved.
So if they evolved, why are they not as advanced as humans? How can they have intelligence but no hands to make tools. To evolve, you needs hands to write on paper or wood or stone. they cannot hold anything in their hand, yet dolphins have a sophisticated language.
Have you seen previous versions of non sophisticated dolphins? there aren't.
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In an attempt to express the opposing view of this threads intended path, I will post what is generally agreed upon in scientific circles as the rebuttal to the religious view of Evolution, based on th most common misconceptions of its premis:
*note-this will be somewhat lengthly, and at times quite boring*
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Tecoyah, this is not boring at all. From your text, there's a proof that the universe came from God's creation in this text. One can use simple scientific methods:
1- elimination: Evolution cannot create, only evolve therefore the only creator left is God.
2- deduction: Since we were given all this evidence of time from the Quran, and all prophets’ point to God. And since aliens did not exist and even if they did exist, how come they did not write a book or refute God's books. So they do not exist. And since evolution cannot find ape like people in fossils, therefore the only possible reason is they were created by God.
So I thank your American scientist as well. I actually am impressed by American scientists because a lot of electronics, scientific etc books and inventions were made by them. I never undermined American scientists or any scientist. Many of my books in university were written by Americans. However Darwin and the people who think evolution alone made the universe have been simply, "mistaken scientists" in my opinion. Evolution evolves already existing genetic information, but it cannot create something from nothing.
Thanks again for this resource.
shakran,
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Oh come on. You can't really think this can you? Mohammad lived in a place where there were pigs. Or he had friends that lived where there were pigs. There's other meat out there that will make you sick as well - in fact ANY meat can make you sick if it's not cooked properly. Beef (e-coli) chicken (salmonella), sushi (you name it, it's in there), lobster (if it dies before you cook it, it's already spoiled). The real miracle is how Mohammad only managed to identify ONE out of the jillions of types of meat that can make you sick.
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Yes there were pigs like any other place. But that is not the question. How did Mohammad who was poor and worked as a goat herder and could not read or write travel around the world and learn that it is only the pig that has this worm or disease to humans? He couldn't. That’s one miracle of the Quran.
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Incorrect. 160 degrees needs a presto or a machine to hold the heat to get to 160 degrees Fahrenheit. At the time 1400 years ago till this age, there was no such device. Hence people would have died from disease if they ate pork.
Wrong again. A wood fired oven can get hotter than 750 degrees F. They had ovens back then. Ergo, they could get the meat hotter than 160 degrees.
Direct cooking over a fire can get it even hotter. The coals in a camp fire can be hotter than 2,000 degrees. Wood won't even burn with an open flame below around 530 degrees. All of these temperatures far exceed the minimum safe cooking temperatures of pork.
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1- if meat gets to 750 it will burn and cannot be eaten
2- God will not risk the death of the people because they know or don't know how to cook.
But God gave humans all animals told them, do not eat the pig. It is a test.
Does this remind you of something?
God gave Adam the paradise, and told him do not eat from this tree. That was the first test.
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Mountains do form by the collision of the Tectonic plates. The tectonic plate then forms an upright position. Upright inside earth like a needle. The length of a mountain inside earth is bigger than outside earth. These help to get the lava stable, not 100% fixed, but stable. Without this "Natural technology" continents and islands would be shifting quickly. This has been mentioned in the Quran. Its in one of the videos, “creation of the universe" I think.
You are wrong. If it was mentioned in the Quran, then the Quran is wrong. The videos are wrong too. Mountains are not nails. Period.
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Please see more. Mountains are not only nails. They have one of the purposes to act like nails to hold the lava. They have other purposes to store water inside. They have many purposes. This was one of the purposes. And the videos were not wrong, I had a big knowledge of the Quran and Islam before a month ago when I saw these videos. And when I saw them, they were the same as the knowledge I gained before.
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What is this... We, who know real science? You are obviously saying that people who beleive in God, don’t know real science and people who don't, they do know real science. This is absolute crap.
And an absolute misinterpretation of what I said. I didn't say EVERYONE who believes in a God is ignorant. I said that people who get the entirety of their science knowledge from a religious text, one I might add which has never been subjected to scientific peer review, are setting themselves up to believe untruths, and are setting themselves up to never learn any new information.
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Sorry, but wrong assumption. How did you know I have not studied other points of view, Hitler, Darwin, the ape which looked like a man in London and then turned after 50 years to be a fake? The people who pray to the devil, the Satanist religion, the gypsies who think that life is for pleasure at every moment only. Sorry again, but you’re mistaken. I always search for new information and I do not believe in an untruth. I believe in God. He gave me scientific evidence of his existence. There are many people that have more suspicion than you and were concerned about what will happen when the remaining 60 years of their life finished. I was one of those and I made researches, studies and mathematic formulas because I couldn't sleep knowing what will happen if I die? VOID!? I wanted to know what will happen and I learned.
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Many people who believe in God are scientists. Even Einstein believed that there is a creator. My friend, a good beleiver and muslim, graduated as an honors list CCE and is working as a designer for logic circuits (CPUs) for a chip manufacturer. I studied computer science and program portals, ecommerce solutions, and can fix electronics
Well, that's nice, but fixing computers does not mean you know anything factually correct about geology or chemistry. Einstein believed in a creator, but didn't buy the yarn that the creator made everything in 7 days. You can believe in a god without having to 100% believe in everything the religious book about that god tells you.
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WHO ARE YOU? who are you to say that I don't know anything about geology or chemistry? I know more than you and I loved these in education and understood how to work with them and made a few little formulas of my own, and I can recall the chemistry formulas in 20 minutes if I read the book again after 15 years of learning them.
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Studied biology, probability, engineering, digital circuits and others. I don't want to and don't like to brag. I'm just showing you that your statement is unfounded "we, who actually know science.."
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but anyone who thinks nothing was hotter than 160 degrees until modern times, and who thinks mountains are nails that hold the world still, and who does not understand the principles of evolution (whether you believe in it or not, you can at least understand what it actually says), does not know science.
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Mountains have one of the purposes as nails. That’s one of the purposes.
Even if supposedly all worms and egg worms die at 160 degrees Did they have thermometers in the old days? Why would a man with a family and kids eat pork that can kill him or his kids. Because, he "thinks" that he boiled it enough to have no worms. Do you think God will tell them in the Quran to buy thermometers and make sure its 160 degrees Fahrenheit? and the use a formula, F= 9/5 *C + 32? And how can he be sure by himself that all worms are dead? Would you take the chance of sleeping with someone if you know they have HIV but you have a condom? What if the condom was not 100% fool proof?
Of course you can fully burn it and then the pig will have all the worms dead. But the pork meat for man is a test like the apple tree of the heaven.