Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Haha gotta love that non-biased reporting. Remember you can always trust what a prisoner tells you  |
Is it all really as "cut and dry", as your taunting, smug, commentary makes it out to be? I don't think so.....
Earlier...on this very same page, I posted documentation that:
<b>[1]</b> Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, formerly in charge of Gitmo prison, and then influenced conditions and interrogation techniques at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, "took the 5th" on the witness stand, a rare move from a senior officer to avoid the risk of incriminating himself, when questioned about his soldiers using dogs to intimidate prisioners.
<b>[2]</b> I provided information that calls into question the validity of the "Al Qaeda" training manual; the fact that a British court did not find that it was convincingly authentic, and the reasonable possibility that our own DOJ, "named" the manual, since it apparently does not mention "Al Qaeda" in any of the contents of translations that have been released to the public.
In this post
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...2&postcount=56
even though <b>stevo</b> emphasizes this same manual to make his point...he include this link to the contents of the manual, itself:
http://cryptome.org/alq-terr-man.htm
Scrolling down, just a few lines, is displayed:
Quote:
.....Several commentators have observed that this manual appears to be a compilation of material drawn from various military, intelligence and law enforcement manuals for internal security, guerilla and covert operations around the globe, and thus is <b>not unique for its alleged sponsorship by Al Qaeda -- which is not mentioned in the manual.</b> Most of these manuals make use of each other's offerings and are studied and emulated worldwide by internal security, military, intelligence and commercial organizations for offensive and defensive purposes. For more on "terrorism manuals," search Google on the term.......
......<b>It is not yet clear whether any of these manuals are authentic, or are fabrications for disinformation and propaganda,</b> as described in The Creation and Dissemination of All Forms of Information in Support of Psychological Operations (PSYOP) in Time of Military Conflict.
Comments for publication (or not) welcome; send to: jya@pipeline.com
A reader suggests comparing with manuals of the School of the Americas:
http://www.soaw.org/soam.html [dead link; material available through Archive.org:]
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://....org/soam.html
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That's what the page on the link that stevo posted, says about the "Al Qaeda" manual, but the research that I posted seems to do nothing to influence stevo, or the other proponent of "the manual". Mojo_PeiPei.
Ustwo gives us another undocumented, "party line" talking point, quoted above, as if it was fact. Why can't we give more weight to the material at the link that jwoody pointed us, to? Aren't the former prisoners, folks who were unjustly and/or mistakenly held at Gitmo? If not, why were they released if they were terrorists?
<b>[3]</b> I also posted this link
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158577,00.html to a "news" report on display on Cheney endorsed, Fox "news" that states, despite all earlier denials to the contrary, that there were five incidences of "Quran Abuse" by US personnel at Gitmo prison, and that one incident involved "pissing" on the Quran, in a scenario as inadvertant and comically conceded to by our own military officer in his report, as a student's story that "my dog ate my homework".
Though most of the above was posted right on this page, Ustwo, does not hesitate to post his "one line" absolute, showing us that he is unphased...there is nothing to discuss, nothing to counter. For the rest of you who are open to considering other ideas, consider this critique of the "party line" as to the use of the "Al Qaeda" manual to stifle discussion about reports from Gitmo and Abu Ghraib prisoners. Consider that there are historic reports of other "manuals"....
Quote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/blum08132005.html
August 13 / 14, 2005
The Anti-Empire Report
The al-Dubya Training Manual
By WILLIAM BLUM
"It is important to note that al Qaeda training manuals emphasize the tactic of making false abuse allegations."
This is now the official and frequent response of White House, Pentagon, and State Department spokespersons when confronted with charges of American "abuse" (read: torture) of prisoners, and is being repeated by many supporters of the war scattered around the Internet.
It can thus be noted that White House, Pentagon, and State Department training manuals emphasize the tactic of saying "It is important to note that al Qaeda training manuals emphasize the tactic of making false abuse allegations," when confronted with charges of American torture of prisoners for which the spokespersons have no other defense.
<b>It is equally important to note that these sundry spokespersons never actually offer a precise quotation from any terrorist training manuals, of al Qaeda or not.</b> The one instance I've been able to find of US government officials referring to a specific terrorist training manual in the context of torture, is a referral to the so-called "Manchester Manual", a manual found on the computer of a suspected terrorist in Manchester, England in 2000.{1} In the references to torture, in the portions of the manual that have been made public, there is certainly no clear, unambiguous directive for making false allegations of abuse, much less an emphasis on such. The manual, apparently written in the 1980s, says the following about torture: "Each brother who is subjected to interrogation and torture, should state all that he agreed upon with the commander and not deviate from it." ... "Security personnel in our countries arrest brothers and obtain the needed information through interrogation and torture."...
........Inasmuch as only selected portions of the manual have been made public by the Bush and Blair administrations it can not be determined in what way the deleted sections might put the White House/Pentagon/State mantra into question....
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If the "Al Qaeda" manual, named by our DOJ in 2001, after it was found in a Manchester, UK raid in 2000, was "written in the 1980's", doesn't contain the term "Al Qaeda" anywhere in the translation that the DOJ provides to the public, why is it so often accepted and provided as "ammunition", even on these threads.....almost exclusively by Bush supporting, conservatives?
Quote:
Justice denied?
A Palestinian activist linked to the Islamic Jihad marks one year of imprisonment based on secret evidence.
The Tampa Tribune
May 17, 1998
Author: Michael Fechter; of The Tampa Tribune
Estimated printed pages: 9
TAMPA - On Tuesday, Mazen Al-Najjar will mark his first anniversary in the Manatee County Jail.
The charge? Nothing.
The evidence? It's secret.
........In an affidavit used to obtain a search warrant in November 1995, INS Special Agent William West said the fronts helped bring terrorists into the United States and raise money for them.
West provided similar testimony during deportation hearings for Al-Najjar, describing him as a mid-level operative conducting the daily business needed to give the fronts credibility.
Al-Najjar and Al-Arian have said they merely ran a think tank studying Palestinian issues, which required them to have Islamic Jihad-related papers in their offices. They have said their scholarship didn't reveal they were working with two Jihad leaders, Basheer Nafi and Ramadan Abdullah Shallah. The Tampa Tribune sought comment from Al-Arian for this story, but he declined.
West began investigating the ICP and WISE after The Tribune reported some of these connections in a 1995 series, "Ties to Terrorists." The series showed ICP and WISE were one entity; while ICP publicly focused on charity work, its annual conferences featured leaders from Islamic Jihad and other Middle Eastern militant groups.
ICP also distributed "Islam and Palestine," a newsletter featuring Jihad communiques and interviews with its leaders. Published in Cyprus, the newsletter carried a Tampa post office box as a return address.
It, "to a considerable degree, reflect[ed] the Islamic Jihad's point of view," wrote Palestinian author Ziad Abu Amr in his book "Islamic Fundamentalism in the West Bank and Gaza."
<b>A training manual, "The Jihad Fighter During Interrogation and Torture," alternately identified as serving Islamic Jihad and Hamas operatives, also was printed in Cyprus and financed through a post office box in Tampa, said the 1990 book "Intifadah.".........</b>
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hmmmm....a 1998 newsreport of another "Jihad" manual ????
And...a link to my last post with reports that call the authenticity of the "Al Qaeda" manual into question:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...71#post2023071