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Originally Posted by willravel
The legality of the Iraq war, at least the legality under US law, was never an issue, right or left. It's a strawman to suggest otherwise. Because US law was never an issue in the Iraq war, why are you mentioning it?
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First Will, I don't appreciate you saying the legality under US law has never been an issue. In the context of this board that isn't true, as seen in this thread on several accounts Bush is labeled as a war criminal for his actions, the conflict is labeled as illegal. That's why I mention it. Again I reassert the FACT that international law holds no weight, no muster, and at best in the context of this issue is a matter of politicking by other foreign sovereign states.
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The argument I am making is that the Iraqi war has yielded no positive results. If I can prove this is true, then the moral compas becomes moot, as logic becomes a primary argument against the war. If, legistically, the war had no positive results for either the US or iraq, then Bushco was clearly not justified in starting it.
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I can't really argue against this comment so much. Hell we might even agree, perhaps maybe wholly if you would concede that a moral compass is completely moot, but I doubt you would. Logic cannot factor in, again I would attest this to short sightedness, no disrespect intended, but I feel compelled to quote old treebeard and say "don't be hasty" at least in how it applies to political capital; hindsight is always going to be 20-20. For me the end will always justify the means, my end is different then yours, so perhaps we will have to agree to disagree.
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A true leader works with allies and subordinates in order to benifit all parties, does not work from a throne, is open to all the options, finishes the job he or she starts, knows that leadership skills come from learning, and can accept credit for his or her failings, and responsibility for his or her failures.
The Iraq War was not and is not one of America's needs. I am not suggesting that we completly ignored Iraq, but to accuse them of having weapons and links to an attack on US soil, only to find both are totally wrong....well that's bad policy.
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You will are an Idealist, can't knock you for that. Others like myself would argue that a true leader should follow a Machiavellian mold, probably more of a realist mold. A true leader serves no master but their ambition; they never lend their power in such a way that would hinder their own; hell in a historical sense, dating back to Washington one of America's precepts has been to steer clear of allies, as they hinder our interests in a means to serve their own. I agree you finish what you start, I hope Shrub and America after him can do that, and do it right.
The war in Iraq was one of America's needs, again it comes down to policy, and it is an issue that time will reveal. I guess all this gab is a matter of perspective.