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Originally Posted by asaris
Not true. God is the good in itself, so the good for him is identical to the good in itself. This is ultimately true for all of us, but we can get easily confused.
This idea is something I'm getting from Scotus, in which he is deeply influenced by Anselm. I might mention that the 'being' I was referring to is proximately the devil. Traditional theology (by which I mean primarily Thomistic) holds that our only impulse is towards the good in itself. Scotus's objection is that this fails to explain how the devil fell, because he knew the good in itself. He argues that what must have happened is that the devil came to love himself more than God (the good in itself), and in this way fell.
Special Note: If you happen to not believe in a literal devil, think of this as a thought experiment...
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What exactly are you saying "not true" about in my first point?
Are you just disagreeing with me for sake of disagreement? It certainly looks like your reply simply restates what I claimed: that the deity has only one inclination...its own good inclination.
We could get into notions of how the devil "fell." But we would then already be cross-talking as our premises would clash. I don't agree with the doctrine of a fallen angel as devil and I haven't been able to place that anywhere in scripture. All references I've found to the devil speak to it's original hebrew, that being an accuser, and as a special office. This runs in line with multiple references that the accuser is simply doing the work of deity as analogous to a prosecutor in the courtroom. All references of his behavior are in line with doing that which he is sent to do (reference Job again, for the most explicated example).
there is one reference I've found to a fallen star, which then becomes Lucifer in the Catholic tradition. But that notion is present nowhere in judaism and if one rereads that portion, then one can also understand it as applying to adam. Try it, and get back to me on that. or you could post the references you think point to the notion of a Lucifer operating in contrast to the deity's will and we could discuss that, which I think wouldn't be out of place in this thread since we're discussing how could a being, especially an angel, operate outside the will of an all-powerful deity. the simply answer, as far as I can tell, is an angel can't.