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Originally Posted by Zyr
The point that I was trying to make was that while a large majority of the christians I have met, follow their religion blindly, not questioning it, almost none of those kind reside here. I think I would have been better off just stopping after the first paragraph, but the end of the second was there to make clear that this was not something I felt about TFPers.
The fact is, that many people believe things that they may not, if they thought about it more, and not just religious things.
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I reacted against your statements which I saw as a pretty unfair and blanket attack. Ironically, when I see something like that, it strikes me that the one making the attack may be a bit blind to some things. I recognize my rhetoric was a bit harsh, but it was an attempt to meet what I felt was a harsh view "in kind" if you will.
I am sorry if I crossed the line.
The fact is, however, that the thing you claim you have only seen in Christians likely applies to some TFPers. Zyr, could it be that perhaps you have a blind spot based on a bias you have?
A little honest introspection wouldn't hurt. Admitting truth never does, and admitting a short coming simply means we understand areas we may have to grow in. Of course, you may feel it is not the case. And I guess we are all entitled to whatever feelings and opinions we have.
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Originally Posted by Zyr
I try to go through things logically, if I can, and that is the reason I hold no beliefs. Nothing I have seen holds up to my own logic. Of course, there are things that logic cannot deal with, especially in religion, and I respect that, but there are things that it can deal with, and some people seem to just ignore the logic that does exist.
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Dude! Let's be honest! I guess this is what I was thinking of above. Your first post certainly seemed to intimate ANYTHING BUT respect for areas where perhaps only faith can proffer where logic fails.
Frankly, I would appreciate knowing if you've read any of the very good Christian apologetics works which exist. Many of them have this common line of reasoning: faith and logic are not inconsistent; and the Christian religion is a logical faith.
Agreeing with the "ingredients" of their argument YOU may not, AND the true Bible Christian -- in my experience -- would be the first to acknowledge your perfect right to disagree. But let's not be condescending and so quick to dismiss intelligence when and where it exists, and at least recognize that there have been some brilliant minds throughout history which have come to that conclusion, one which seems to have some merit to it.
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Originally Posted by Zyr
For example, seeing as I would be asked for one other wise, many christians say that the bible is the literal word of god, but do not act as if it were so. That's just not right.
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Hypocrisy is never pleasant. But I would suggest this...
Perhaps -- PERHAPS? -- you may have a bias against Christianity such that you perceive some beliefs and actions as hypocritical when the individual who holds them does not. Can you at least admit that's possible?
However, and this is true, hypocrisy is an equal opportunity disease. No matter the value system you hold to, any one can succumb to it. And it is equally true that you find some hypocrites in Christianity. Perhaps by virtue of the high moral standard unbelievers presume believers should hold -- a presumption not without merit -- hypocrisy amongst Christians is a bit easier to spot?
I would suggest unbelievers presume a high moral standard is the norm when someone tells them, "I'm a Christian," from what they understand Christianity is to be. Those understandings may be flawed at times. When they are not, it is possible the unbeliever gives a more careful and critical eye [critical in the sense of discerning] to examining the life of the believer because they would like to see if what they have is genuine, or perhaps to find fault and make them self feel better about not measuring up to an internal standard they have but may deny.
That's pretty natural, too.
But to be fair, as I understand it, a Christian might readily admit "I'm not perfect but I am forgiven." Not to use that as an excuse, one would hope, but as an honest assessment of where they are at, at that moment. And, if you feel they are hypocritical, then you are letting a hypocrite come between you and God.