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Originally Posted by willravel
Moral equasions offer a dangerous prescedent for negotiating one's morality. What use are morals if you do not adhear to them?
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My whole point was that such a decision has nothing to do with morals or legality. It is a (fortunately rare) circumstance that is faced each day by someone in the world.
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Originally Posted by willravel
Also, a fight takes two or more. One person cannot fight.
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I don't understand your point.
We're talking about guns, right?
Let me tell you where I'm coming from:
If someone wants to steal my wallet, car, briefcase etc. I DON'T reach for a gun - I let him have it all. That's what insurance is for.
If someone verbally threatens me, I DON'T reach for a gun. I try to talk to him and find a resolution.
If someone verbally threatens my family, I DON'T reach for a gun. I stand between him and my family and try to talk to him to find a resolution.
If someone verbally threatens my family AND he's holding a knife I DON'T reach for a gun. I stand between him and my family and try to talk to him to find a resolution.
But if a stranger is charging at my helpless family with knife in hand, clearly in a threatening manner, - I WILL draw my weapon to STOP him.
I don't see this as a fight.
My intent is to STOP an act of violence against myself or a loved one ... that's all. The mortality/morbidity of my target is not the main issue. This is not just a euphemistic distinction:
If I happen to shoot and miss but the agressor drops his knife and/or runs away - I am successful.
If I shoot him and the bullet lacerates the thoracic aorta but he is able to plunge a knife into a loved one just before he dies from rapid internal bleeding - I am unsuccessful.
My only concern is the protection of my family - the aggressor's health is a secondary consideration. That's why it's not a fight.
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Originally Posted by willravel
This is hardly my only moral, and there are other related morals attached to this one. In fact, most people have a very intrecit system of morals that each have their limits, in fact mine could even have their limits after all I make this post being of sound mind. I don't know how I would respond if my daughter were in danger and I were in a position to help her.
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I think we all shudder to consider that possibility. I appreciate your honesty. If anyone ever claimed they had no problems withold their parental obligations in favor of their moral beliefs I'd say they were full of crap.
I have seen many cases in my work and life where people who never considered such a scenario found themselves facing it - Where they had to act within 1-2 seconds ... and couldn't.
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Originally Posted by willravel
The closesest I have come to that was a bad cold she had a year ago.
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Which isn't trivial, I know.
As a physician I'm terrific at treating others ... but it's much harder for me to feel objective with my own family. You think the worst things when a child has a severe cold. I can still feel helpless in that case ... and I'm a doctor!
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Originally Posted by willravel
It's all very Daoist, I know, but in understanding violence I was able to get a better perspective of peace.
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What I get from daoism is the absolution from expectation - to understand that a life of principle isn't calculated to create goodness, peace etc. ... That I can live by my beliefs ... but that won't guarantee that shit won't happen.