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Originally Posted by shakran
Did it make it to the supreme court?
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I recant this particular aspect as further research indicates that the Michigan Appelate Court struck down the law entirely after hearing this case.
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Originally Posted by shakran
You read it wrong. And the people protesting at the funerals don't have a problem with the dead guy's family. They have a problem with the GOVERNMENT (the body they're petitioning for a redress of their grievances) having forced the guy to go to Iraq and get killed. I can see why they're doing it. They figure if the government won't allow pictures of the coffins out, you have to draw attention to the funerals somehow.
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You apparently have not done your research on this hateful organization. First of all, their CHURCHES official website is at the URL:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main . While their anti-homosexual stance has no bearing on this thread directly, one can glean a certain amount of understanding of what they are all about from that alone. How about their literature here:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/j...gislatures.pdf . I'd say that it's fairly certain that they ARE protesting the people, not the government (well, them, too). In fact, I almost feel too sickened after reading that to go on... but I shall...
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Originally Posted by shakran
BS argument. Our forefathers didn't have the intention of allowing TV and radio broadcasts because they couldn't conceive of such a thing. They didn't intend to allow people to drive cars, but we can do that too. Just because the forefathers could not possibly predict all possible future actions does not mean those actions are forbidden.
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But hatred has ALWAYS existed. Hatred is not a new technology or new religion. It's something that has been in the hearts of men since the dawn of time. And hatred is directly anti-American as it prevents pursuit of happiness for others. This is why in many places hate crimes rate higher penalties than similar crimes commited for lesser reasons.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Show me the article or amendment that gives people the RIGHT to keep other people off of public property if its near a funeral. No rights have been trampled here.
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None, it is local law that often prohibits such actions.
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Originally Posted by shakran
1) That phrase is from the Declaration of Independence and is not part of American law.
2) You just shot yourself in the foot. The protestors are pursuing happiness by protesting at the funeral.
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Ah, I see you are an astute follower of American History. I understand it is not part of American Law... it still, however, is a big basis for the "American Way". Again, you cannot pursue your happiness at the expense of others. I can't just walk over and take a giant shit in the sidewalk in front of your house because I don't like you. There are LAWS against treating individuals badly. If they protested in D.C. or state legistalative buildings... that's one thing. A funeral is a private event and therefore the protestors are in the wrong.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Why? What legal basis do you have for declaring that? What if the families said protesting in front of the capitol building was causing them to suffer because they feel it's not supportive of the troops? Should we ban that too? We have rights in this country, and the nice thing about our constitution is that we get to exercise those rights even if it pisses someone off. Your arguments would have stopped the civil rights movement (hey the blacks are upsetting the whites, make 'em stop, they're trampling on rights), the women's movement (the men are suffering because the women are getting jobs as a result of their protests. Make 'em stop, they can't make anyone suffer), and in fact could be used to squash protest of ANY sort that those currently in power decide they don't like.
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See above points
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Originally Posted by shakran
Not suffering during a period of grief is also NOT a constitutionally protected right. But freedom of speech, expression, and assembly ARE constitutionally protected rights.
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Well, perhaps it is time for yet another ammendment. People seem to forget that the Constitution has and can change.
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Originally Posted by shakran
how can we be assured peace when the damn gays are running around holding pride parades and exposing our young'ns to that filth?
How can we be assured peace if the blacks insist on holding million man marches in the nation's capitol? Hell it took me an hour to get to work that day! Ban that crap!
How can we be assured peace if drivers in New York keep honking their damn horns? Ban horns too!
Come to think of it, how can we be assured peace if anyone says anything that someone might not like? Maybe we should just outlaw speech in general.
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Again, take an ad in the newspaper, hold a rally at a town park, picket in front of the capitol building... THOSE are protected rights. Here they are commiting at least the following illegal acts: slander and harassment... MINIMUM.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Gets pretty ridiculous and anti-american when we carry your arguments out to other situations doesn't it? And if we subscribed to your beliefs, the blacks would still be segregated, the gays would still have to hide in the closet for fear of having their entire lives ruined, and no one could say anything if it upset anyone else. I for one am not interested in living in an Orwellian country.
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Again, I don't think your arguments and mine are even remotely related. If you want to hate fags, nigger, chinks, wetbacks, women, jews, semites, soldiers... that's great. Whatever you want! But don't burn crosses on people's lawns. Oh wait... what if it was a public park? What if they took care not to damage the grass? It must be OKAY to do that in hate then? Seems not to me... but whatever...
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Originally Posted by shakran
Yes, it absolutely does. The people at the funeral have the right to protest what the protestors are doing. I will not argue that it would not be a good thing if the protestors decided on their own to cool it with the funerial protests, but then it'd also be nice if the kid down the street wouldn't thunk his car stereo at 1am, and it'd be nice if the local TV station didn't air Teletubbies, and it'd be nice if the guy from our competing station hadn't called me a jerk today for not letting him take my spot at the press conference. But to legislate all that just because we are worried about offending people is anti-American. There is no constitutional right not to be offended.
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Is your mom still alive? If so, please let me know when she passes away. I'll tell the good Reverend P that your mom was a whore and loves gays. I'm sure you'll enjoy the picketing on your mothers death bed. I'm not saying they cannot protest the war. I'm a soldier. I fight for their right to DO so. But not at the expense of our other personal liberties.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Great! The protestors are the injured party too because their country started an immoral, illegal war without their consent. They, like many, are ashamed to be part of this country right now because its government is behaving in a way that is distinctly against the supposed values of our country.
Come to think of it, NO one would protest if they did not feel they were injured in some way. Who do you think is going to organize a protest because they think things are going great?
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And let's roll out the SAME thing... they are not protesting the COUNTRY or GOVERNMENT, they are protesting INDIVIDUALS who died in the line of duty. This is not the same thing.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Where did you come up with this argument? The protestors aren't killing anyone. What are you talking about?
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Didn't say they were...
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Originally Posted by shakran
Yeah, maybe. But if you were on a public sidewalk and you got cited for that you could sue the holy shit out of the police department that cited you, because stopping you from doing that is not legal.
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Hmmm, so verbal assault is legal, and physical assault is not? It's not verbal assualt? Where IS the line drawn on the law?
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Originally Posted by shakran
Perhaps, but we cannot legislate morality. Otherwise we must make gays, abortion, and premarital sex illegal. You willing to go that far?
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I never said we should legislate morality... but since that's what they are claiming as their right (they use the law then hide behind god and morality) I thought it was a suitable counter to their motives.
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Originally Posted by shakran
That's just silly. saying "I wish you were dead" is not the same thing as "you're going to die" and it's certainly not saying "dude I have an in with god and he's gonna kill you."
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Is saying, "You're going to die" a threat? It seems like a fact 10 times out of 10 in my book. And they DO basically say that god is killing them for glorious divine reasons. They ARE saying god will kill them (and the fags and such as well, by the way).
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Originally Posted by shakran
You are wrong.
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So are you...