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roachboy · 01-30-2006, 06:13 PM

extending what ubertuber said: you have to take seriously the fact of occupation and its brutality.
you have to take seriously the israeli settlement program, how it has been orchestrated, what its purposes are, and its implications for palestinians--for example, the "settling" near water supplies...
you have to take seriously that the settlement program is a de facto annexation program, backed by the military force of a regional superpower.
also, remember the sharon strategy from a few years ago--humilitate arafat on the one hand while at the same time claiming that the problem is that there is no-one to negociate with amongst the palestinian population--totally disengenuous, amazingly cynical, with--again--brutal consequences for the folk who live on the ground.

you have to keep in mind that fine humanitarian policy of bulldozing the houses of the families of suspected militants.

you need to keep in mind the corruption under arafat as well--combine that with the facts concerning the israeli occupation of the west bank etc., and it does nto take a rocket scientist to derive that the plo/fatah would be seen as weak and corrupt--add to that the way israel has chosen to proceed since 1967 in the occupoed territories, and the resulting radicalization would seem such an obvious possibility that you would have thought that even the incompetents in the bush administration would have seen this coming.

but no.

on the other side--again--israeli politics is not singular--there are all kinds of groups/organizations that take full cognizance of the fiasco that the occupation has been, in all kinds of ways, for israel itself, who have positions that are nuanced well beyond anything i or anyone else whose viewpoint is distant coudl have on the matter--then you have likud--then you have idiots like netanyahu, who yesterday likened the rise of hamas to that of fascism in germany....

i do think that hamas has to recognize israel's right to exist--there is nothing to be done about the fact of the israeli state--it is a fact---but israel should be accepted by all as a legitimate state--and should be held to account for its actions as any other state would be had it undertaken this kind of action.

i would think that if most of the folk on this board lived in palestine, they too woudl have at least seriously considered voting hamas in this election. if you do not think so, then you dont know what the situation on the ground has been like in the west bank.

01-30-2006, 06:13 PM	#81 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	extending what ubertuber said: you have to take seriously the fact of occupation and its brutality. you have to take seriously the israeli settlement program, how it has been orchestrated, what its purposes are, and its implications for palestinians--for example, the "settling" near water supplies... you have to take seriously that the settlement program is a de facto annexation program, backed by the military force of a regional superpower. also, remember the sharon strategy from a few years ago--humilitate arafat on the one hand while at the same time claiming that the problem is that there is no-one to negociate with amongst the palestinian population--totally disengenuous, amazingly cynical, with--again--brutal consequences for the folk who live on the ground. you have to keep in mind that fine humanitarian policy of bulldozing the houses of the families of suspected militants. you need to keep in mind the corruption under arafat as well--combine that with the facts concerning the israeli occupation of the west bank etc., and it does nto take a rocket scientist to derive that the plo/fatah would be seen as weak and corrupt--add to that the way israel has chosen to proceed since 1967 in the occupoed territories, and the resulting radicalization would seem such an obvious possibility that you would have thought that even the incompetents in the bush administration would have seen this coming. but no. on the other side--again--israeli politics is not singular--there are all kinds of groups/organizations that take full cognizance of the fiasco that the occupation has been, in all kinds of ways, for israel itself, who have positions that are nuanced well beyond anything i or anyone else whose viewpoint is distant coudl have on the matter--then you have likud--then you have idiots like netanyahu, who yesterday likened the rise of hamas to that of fascism in germany.... i do think that hamas has to recognize israel's right to exist--there is nothing to be done about the fact of the israeli state--it is a fact---but israel should be accepted by all as a legitimate state--and should be held to account for its actions as any other state would be had it undertaken this kind of action. i would think that if most of the folk on this board lived in palestine, they too woudl have at least seriously considered voting hamas in this election. if you do not think so, then you dont know what the situation on the ground has been like in the west bank. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-30-2006 at 06:23 PM..