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Old 01-21-2006, 10:36 PM   #52 (permalink)
guthmund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorTim
That's pretty good. But for me the short answer is not that sacrifices were no longer "possible" but after the sacrifice of Jesus they were no longer necessary.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Oh, absolutely. If you were looking for the definitive answer in the text of the Holy Bible itself then Hebrews 10:7 is certainly a fair place to start. In this instance I decided to direct his question to a fairly reputable source that offered a sound argument without having to resort to "Because God said so."



Quote:
Well, you are of course free to believe that, but the sentiment that "Jesus didn't die for our sins" is a direct contradiction of Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Bad turn of phrase. Let's try it this way... It's my understanding of Christian theology that Jesus' death simply opened up the possibility for the sinners to save themselves. It wasn't an 'everybody get out of hell free' card. He didn't wash the world clean and expiate all sin from everyone.

Jesus couldn't rid the world of sin completely without voiding God's gift of free will or revoking God's law and its punishment for poorly exercising that same free will. He could however offer an alternative path that would help to nullify the repercussions of that sin when we stood in judgement. We can choose to sin against God, which normally would be irrevocable, but thanks to Jesus' sacrifice we can also choose salvation.

Let's go to the scripture...

God spoke the Law. Exodus 20: 1-26

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Small Sampling
And God spake all these words, saying,

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.....
These are the commandments that God gave Moses to give God's chosen people. They are part of his covenant to them. The Law is holy and righteous and to break any of these laws is of infinite offense (remember...God is eternal and everlasting) to God. A sin that will be accordingly punished.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death;

This, of course, assumes that you don't believe in original sin or that man is born with sin as evidenced by these two passages from the book of Romans although there are similar mentions all throughout the book...John, I believe has a few.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned

Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one

Either way, sin is now on the table and consequently the sinner has done terrible offense to God. Offense that must now be paid for. Too bad we can't.

Galatians 2:16 - ....for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 8:3 - For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh....

Kind of a long road to get to the idea that it's through Jesus Christ that we are saved of our sins rather than the notion that Jesus died to rid us of all sin everywhere, which seems kind of implied by the language.....maybe I'm reading too much into it, eh?

Oh, salvation through Christ...right.
Titus 3:5-7 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 5: 8-9
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Galations 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

Jesus died for our sins? I guess technically that's true, but it doesn't apply across the board to everyone, only to those that ask...

Revelation 3:20 - Behold I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him.


hang on...part II coming up soon...
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Last edited by guthmund; 01-21-2006 at 10:57 PM..
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