PastorTim

Hello,

Though I've commented above on in response to other posts, I suppose jumping in at this point without reading the whole thread is a bit like walking on a lake you think is frozen but might not quite be 100%

But, hey, I've done that before too. Go figure.

Good use of "imperfect." However the Bible also tells us that ~ Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

It also makes it clear that the OT sacrifices were types pointed to the ultimate sacrifice, Jesus ~ John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

That's pretty good. But for me the short answer is not that sacrifices were no longer "possible" but after the sacrifice of Jesus they were no longer necessary.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

I know, I'm biased. But I prefer to believe God had a hand in the matter of the spread of Christianity ~

Galatians 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

At least that's one understanding I believe is conveyed by "when the fulness of the time was come."

Well, you are of course free to believe that, but the sentiment that "Jesus didn't die for our sins" is a direct contradiction of Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

That's ummm interesting. When Jesus was speaking in John chapter 10, the following exchange takes place:

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Now it seems reasonable if those in Jesus's own day who did not believe in Him, yet still understood that He was making a claim of equality with the Father, then we should also. When did we become smarter than they?

Further, the Russellites [ie: "Jehovah's Witnesses" so-called] attempt to construct the same claim in their perversion of John 1:1.

In the King James [and most other English translations], that verse reads:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Russelites like to change that to "and the Word was a god."

Frankly, there's absolutely no grammatical [nor theological] support for it. And this verse makes it very clear that the Biblical claim is that Jesus and the Father are one in the same essence.

Don't confuse order in the Godhead with inequality.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

[Yes, I'm well aware of the supposed controversies surrounding 1 John 5:7. After examining the evidence, I accept it as Scripture, so I quote it as an authority on the subject.]

Compare the appearance of God in Isaiah 6 with the appearance of God in Revelation 1.

Further, Paul declares in Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Jesus is the Son of God and God the Son.

True. Yet Jesus did limit Himself in some of the prerogatives of Deity in His incarnation ~

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

But that was a voluntary limitation on His part, "to the glory of God." It does not invalidate the fact that He was / is very God of very God.

And you're right -- And that is Who Jesus claimed to be, and is: Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. ~ And although in the context of Heb. 13 that verse speaks more to the fidelity of Jesus, yet it also can be validly quoted to support His immutability, when speaking of Jesus as God.

I've heard a lot of analogies used in an attempt to help explain the Trinity. I don't like most of them. But one which seems to come closest in terms of Biblical accuracy, is that of a Law Office.

We can imagine a Law Office with three partners, each one separate yet equal in terms of the authority of the office, yet each one with a different specialty. One perhaps is a specialist in civil law, one in criminal law, one in corporate law. And so each one might handle different matters, yet any one of them is authorized to speak and act on behalf of the office. Yet only one of them might do that in the normal course of affairs and events.

Well, those of you who have pondered the question of the Trinity certainly can appreciate where that analogy goes, and recognize as with any analogy it's not perfect by any means. But I dare say better than "ice / water / steam" etc..

So I won't bore you with any more of those details.

Thanks for letting me cross the pond, at my own peril I'm sure. Blessings...

__________________
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ~ Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour