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Originally Posted by longbough
While both the taser and OC spray are useful - they are far from "proven."
By "mace" I presume you mean pepper spray or OC spray. Of the many formulations, including ones exclusive to law enforcement, none can guarantee incapacitation. Some people simply aren't affected by it (I still don't know why). I personally know several people who have no problem being sprayed (some are LEOs and some are criminals). The most impressive "gentleman" I ever treated took on 8 full cans of LEO-only grade OC in a single encounter and had to be subdued by other means.
On the other hand I also know some unfortunate "gentlemen" who have severe life threatening asthma provoked principally by OC spray. You would think that's an incentive to behave ... it isn't.
Though I've never heard of status asthmaticus provoked in a "street encounter". But I've seen it happen in state correctional institutions. Believe me, watching someone suffocate to death by "less than lethal" use of force is horrible.
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Yes, I do mean pepper or OC spray (welcome to the OC). 8 cans? Can the average person take 8 cans? The average person isn't going to be attacked more than a few times before they take adequate measures to avoid the attack (changing the route home, parking closer to the building, moving to a safer neighborhood, etc.). Lets say you have to use your can 5 times on 5 different assailants. Now let's apply the odds to this. How many people, in your experience, are not effected by pepper spray? 1/5? 1/50? 1/500? 1/5000? The average perso would probably be effected, at least for enoguht time for the asailed to run, hide or get some kind of help.
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Originally Posted by longbough
Then there's the taser.
Tasers cost around $800 each - each cartridge is extra. Do you know any civilian who even owns a taser or trained with one?
You have one cartridge loaded at a time ... what if you miss?
Modern tasers simply look like Glocks - (ease of transition for LEOs). If a cop saw you brandishing one in public - regardless of the scenario he/she will, understandably, approach you as if you had a firearm.
And, did you know that taser barbs are easily defeated by heavy clothing? Criminals do.
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I suspect that a elather jacket or such probably would have an effect of sheilding, somewhat, but what about jeans? Very few people wear anything much thincker than denim on their legs. Most criminals, honestly, are men. Shoot wheere it matters. As for being approached by an officer, let them approach. Pilice officers have a responsibility to make sure that people aren't brandishing weapons that are illegal. Once the officer sees a permit (I'm not sure what is necessary to carry one in public, you'd have to tell me), I'm sure everything would be fine. They might follow you for a bit, but that's a good thying if you are afraid of being assaulted.
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Originally Posted by longbough
I'm not saying tasers and OC spray are useless. But they don't substitute the function of a gun - hence the "escalation of force" in LEO practice.
And, yes, I do have "less than lethal" means at my disposal but it's neither OC nor a taser. I'll write about it later - gtg.
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I'll await your writing about it with much anticipation.