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Originally Posted by kangaeru
And look where that's gotten us. Perhaps we should focus on education, public infrastructure, and things which are going to give back to our society as a whole. If we took the money dumped into the Iraq war and used it to rebuild improverished neighborhoods, build new schools, etc, in a Roosevelt style public works extravaganza, we would have a huge economic boom. Thousands of jobs created, better education for all Americans, and it might show minorities that they don't have to gang bang and run drugs to buy a BMW.
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Look at it this way. If you spend 18 hours per day searching for food and 6 hours resting, all you do is eat and sleep. If you spend 9 hours per day searching for food, 6 resting, then you have 9 hours for other things. The quality of your life improved. That is what I mean by productivity gains.
Imoverished neighborhoods in this country are actually that bad compared to historical or international standards. Yes, we can do better, but individuals have to take some responsibility for their lot in life. Every child has access to education, food, and shelter. Anyone born in this country can go from poverty to becoming wealthy.
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We still have the best technology of any other country in the world, arguably. I don't see why we have to focus on productivity--honestly, this country needs a more socialist approach. We have to aknowledge man's greed, and the fact that he will work hardest for his own gain rather than his neighbors, but we should also control key industries by the state and give the basics required to live to all citizens. But no, we focus on productivity, which leads to our public infratrustructures deteriorating.
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That's working really well for Cuba, would you agree? I won't.
Having the best technology today, means nothing tomorrow. We either move forward or we go backward. I get the feeling that some on this board think that once you reach a certain point, you can stop, rest, smell the roses. Thats o.k. for those who are satisfied with a deteriorating life-style. I just hope for the sake of our nation, these folks stay in the minority.
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How do you PROPOSE they actually do that? The US will never be the best place to employ labor because the costs of living here are so high. There is no way you can expect any American to live on $2 hour. Third world countries are fucking over their people by selling out to international corporations in exchange for sweet heart deals amongst the bureaucratic elite. The people of these nations get trampled and trodden over by these corporate machines.
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My father worked for Caterpillar, in a union as a machine operator, before retiring. There was a period when the company moved production of an important part overseas, in about 6 months they brought production of that part back to his department. Why? Because is department was better at making the part. The quality was better and they were more productive. Thats how it works. If you are better than your competition, you win.
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Ace, so far, you have said NOTHING to back up the kind of economics you're talking about. Please explain to me how any the things I have just described to you are going to lead towards a prosperous American society in the next 20 years? How are peoples' lives going to be bettered?
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Our lives will get better through education. Why should Americans die in coal mines. Why should Americans work 12 hour days making shoes? Why shouldn't Americans become scientist, computer programmers, inventors, engineers, managers of capital and resources. Give third world nations an opportunity to grow their economies with hard labor. Our focus should be a 'brain' labor.
Look at farming. Today, one man can do the work of hundreds of men. That's gains in productivity. The people who worked on farms started doing other work. Now people working in factories don't have to, they need to do other work. The kind of work that requires knowledge, creativity, initiative...,isn't that our goal?
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Can you refute any of this with anything substantial? Can you reply with anything concrete that may change my mind? Can you explain how I'm completely wrong and the scenario I just described is not the situation third world workers are in?
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Do you have an open mind? If you do I'll keep trying.
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Our system is inherently broken in unhealthy. You remember when capitalism failed? The Great Depression? When monopolies ruled the world and American workers were in the EXACT same situation I described in those third world countries? Capitalism needs competition and democracy to check itself against the abominable beast of human greed, and so far as I see it, those safe guards have failed.
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The Great Depression was the result of government's attempts at restricting free trade.
Big government and government interference in free markets hurts our system. Why has education gotten worse over the years with more and more government involvment?
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As a result we have global monopolies who go around pillaging and looting the rest of the world, using efficiency and productivity as excuses to create an economy with rapidly increasing polarization of wealth and influence.
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Pillaging and looting of the world occured mostly during the monarchies of western europe. In capitalist systems, with free markets, people and nations get paid.
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I really hope you can respond to this with something empirical, or else just stop wasting our time and admit you're rich, happy, and could really care less about what's happening to people outside the bubble of your own life.
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I started life lower middle class. Parents got divorced when I was 10. There were times when my dad got laid-off of his union job and we used food stamps. We rented and moved almost every year. I worked hard in school, worked part-time jobs, saved money, paid for college, worked hard in the corporate world, saved, bought a home, continued my education, got promotions and raises, saved, and bought my business with my life savings. Now I am working harder than ever before. If you think I am greedy because I worked hard and made sacrifices, so be it.