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Originally Posted by martinguerre
The argument that beleif in Jesus as Christ equals Christianity is pure anachronism. Regardless of if Jesus thought himself Christ, it is Hebrew texts and teachings that lead to messianic hope. Not all believed that the scriptures predicted such a figure, and not all agreed that Jesus was Christ. But those who did believe as such did so as part and parcel of their pre-existing faith.
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We are talking about a general concensus of what the church taught. In general, Judism taught that there would some day be a messiah. It still does. Basically all Chrtistians believe that Jesus was the son of God and the messiah. If one can say that this is a possible divergence between the two faiths, then Jesus was Christian. He knew He was the messiah. I know the term Christian hadn't been invented yet when Jesus was around, but we are looking at this from the year 2005 when the term Christian is known and understood. From the perspective of today (where I get a lot of my persperctive from), I would suggest that because Jesus beieved Himself to be the son of God and the messiah, He was and is Christian.
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Originally Posted by martinguerre
Simply, no reputable scholar would say that the schism of Judaism and Christianity occurs any time before the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD)...and many say it occurs late 2nd century.
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I'm not a reputable scholar. I'm just some dude. I know when the church was oifficially named Christianity, but again we are looking at this from 2005. Jesus is supposed to be timeless, anyway. Since it is past 70 AD, Jesus is now Christian.
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Originally Posted by Lebell
I too will vigorously disagree.
Re-read the Gospels and you will repeatedly see Jesus observing all the Jewish religious traditions including: observing the sabbath; observing passover; reading scripture in the temple.
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The sabbath and passover are not exclusively Jewish. Christians also celebrate passover and go to church on the sabbath. Jesus read the old testemant in the temple. The old testament is the first half of the Christian bible.
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Originally Posted by Lebell
What the Hebrews believed Jesus to be is irrelevant to the question and what he himself believed also appears to be irrelevant since his actions proclaim him to be an observant Jew.
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An observant Jew wouldn't claim to be the messiah. An observant Jew wouldn't contradict the pharisies. Christians see christianity to be the next step beyond Judism. We simply belive that Judism is an unfinished story without the messiah. Because of that key difference, Jesus can now be considered Christian. The teachings of Jesus, from him or through his apostles, is the entire second half of the christian bible (the new testemant). I would say that Jesus is the personification of Christianity, not just that He is a Christian.
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Originally Posted by highthief
And Muhammed wasn't anything close to Christian. Prior to the Prophet's arrival and preaching, most Arabs were polytheistic, though Allah was recognized as a primary god and the Arabs claimed decendency from Abraham, as the Jews and Christians did.
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There is a whole book in the Qu'ran named after Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. Muslims believe that Abraham rebuilt Mecca, and that Moses, David, Jesus, and others were prophets sent from Allah. They believe that the Torah was delivered to the Jews by God, and that the bible was delivered to the deciples by God. Muhammed recieved thr Qu'ran from Gabriel, an angel mentioned in the Bible.