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Aladdin Sane · 12-22-2005, 03:58 PM

The point is not that North Korea has designs on Canada. The point is that without the United States there would be a nation there to take its place. In light of history, I believe the biggest contenders were Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, the Soviet Union, or some other tyrannical regime imposing a twisted vision upon the world.

History shows that the natural state of human affairs is not freedom and peace. Freedom is actually a historical aberration. One thing is certain: freedom does not defend and maintain itself. Peace must be purchased at a very high price. Unfortunately, many Western countries, Canada included, have decided not to contribute their fair share. It is worth repeating: Canada currently ranks 17th in NATO in terms of defence spending as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Only Luxembourg and Iceland spend less. Iceland and Luxembourg! Of the 27 countries represented by NATO, the Pacific Allies, and the Gulf Cooperation Council, Canada ranks 25th in defense spending and 11th in spending on foreign assistence. This is less than Canadians spend on video games! In 2004, Canadians spent an estimated $16.1 billion on alcoholic beverages, in comparison to the $14.1 billion they spent on their armed forces.
To quote an Interim Report by the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, 38th Parliament – 1st Session (Sept. 2005):

But the issue of military preparedness goes beyond the practical. There will never be a day when all the world’s problems can be solved by niceness. If well-intentioned societies disarm – or allow their armed forces to deteriorate – there are plenty of mean and muscular warlords willing to take the helm.
In 2004-2005, defence spending accounted for 1 per cent of Canada’s GDP, roughly $420 per capita, and foreign aid spending accounted for 0.19 per cent of Canada’s GDP, roughly $65 per capita.
In 1990-1991, defence spending by Canada represented 1.6 per cent of GDP. As a percentage of Canada’s Gross Domestic Product defence spending has fallen a precipitous 62.5 per cent over the past 15 years.
Canada's per-capita spending on defence and foreign aid pales in comparison to many other developed countries. The $420 per capita Canada spent on defence in 2004 is far short of what either the United Kingdom (approximately $988 per capita), the Netherlands (approximately $793 per capita) or Australia (approximately $844 per capita) spent. Canada ranks just 128th out of 165 countries in defence spending as a percentage of GDP.
Of course there are countries in this world that spend what many Canadians would consider to be too high a percentage of their GDP on defense. But Canada most certainly isn’t one of them. Anyone who argues that Canada should set an example by beating its modest arsenal of swords into plowshares and thereby absent itself from international conflict is not just naïve – they undermine Canadians’ ability to survive as a nation and Canada’s obligation to contribute to a more just and stable world.

Canada's Military and the Legacy of Neglect

I don't think anything I might say or evidence I could produce would change your stance on this issue. Besides, I have invested all I care to at this time on this debate. I do appreciate your willingness to approach the debate in a rational manner, without personal invective. For that I consider you a Gentleman and a friend. Cheers.

12-22-2005, 03:58 PM	#149 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	The point is not that North Korea has designs on Canada. The point is that without the United States there would be a nation there to take its place. In light of history, I believe the biggest contenders were Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, the Soviet Union, or some other tyrannical regime imposing a twisted vision upon the world. History shows that the natural state of human affairs is not freedom and peace. Freedom is actually a historical aberration. One thing is certain: freedom does not defend and maintain itself. Peace must be purchased at a very high price. Unfortunately, many Western countries, Canada included, have decided not to contribute their fair share. It is worth repeating: Canada currently ranks 17th in NATO in terms of defence spending as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Only Luxembourg and Iceland spend less. Iceland and Luxembourg! Of the 27 countries represented by NATO, the Pacific Allies, and the Gulf Cooperation Council, Canada ranks 25th in defense spending and 11th in spending on foreign assistence. This is less than Canadians spend on video games! In 2004, Canadians spent an estimated $16.1 billion on alcoholic beverages, in comparison to the $14.1 billion they spent on their armed forces. To quote an Interim Report by the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, 38th Parliament – 1st Session (Sept. 2005): But the issue of military preparedness goes beyond the practical. There will never be a day when all the world’s problems can be solved by niceness. If well-intentioned societies disarm – or allow their armed forces to deteriorate – there are plenty of mean and muscular warlords willing to take the helm. In 2004-2005, defence spending accounted for 1 per cent of Canada’s GDP, roughly $420 per capita, and foreign aid spending accounted for 0.19 per cent of Canada’s GDP, roughly $65 per capita. In 1990-1991, defence spending by Canada represented 1.6 per cent of GDP. As a percentage of Canada’s Gross Domestic Product defence spending has fallen a precipitous 62.5 per cent over the past 15 years. Canada's per-capita spending on defence and foreign aid pales in comparison to many other developed countries. The $420 per capita Canada spent on defence in 2004 is far short of what either the United Kingdom (approximately $988 per capita), the Netherlands (approximately $793 per capita) or Australia (approximately $844 per capita) spent. Canada ranks just 128th out of 165 countries in defence spending as a percentage of GDP. Of course there are countries in this world that spend what many Canadians would consider to be too high a percentage of their GDP on defense. But Canada most certainly isn’t one of them. Anyone who argues that Canada should set an example by beating its modest arsenal of swords into plowshares and thereby absent itself from international conflict is not just naïve – they undermine Canadians’ ability to survive as a nation and Canada’s obligation to contribute to a more just and stable world. Canada's Military and the Legacy of Neglect I don't think anything I might say or evidence I could produce would change your stance on this issue. Besides, I have invested all I care to at this time on this debate. I do appreciate your willingness to approach the debate in a rational manner, without personal invective. For that I consider you a Gentleman and a friend. Cheers. __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.