Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lebell
We KNOW from their own literature that many radicals believe we are paper tigers; bloody our noses enough and we will run. And they have been right up until now.
This is not how you want to be perceived.
|
I don’t think Rosen is saying that we should withdraw to avoid bloodied noses; rather he’s saying that our continued presence is not in the best interest of the Iraqi people and government, and the longer we stay, the less the likelihood that the current government will survive.
No matter when we withdraw the “radicals” will interpret that as a humiliating defeat. So we might as well do what’s in our best interests, and in the best interests of the Iraqis.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by roachboy
on the other hand, taken on its own terms, i think the article cited in the op is pollyana in its assessment of the situation in iraq: i do not think that everything will right itself immediately upon the american withdrawal---
|
I don’t think that’s what Rosen is saying; he’s saying that the violence that will inevitably occur after withdrawal will be more far-reaching and devastating the longer we wait to withdraw. If we wait too long, then the current government hasn’t a chance of surviving. Better then to withdraw soon; there will be a Kurdish secession and Sunni/Shiite reprisals, but at least they will be short-lived and the government and the current infrastructure (such as it is) have a decent chance of surviving intact.
Quote:
|
the way to repair this damage is … to get rid of the bush administration, replace it with a saner one that would necessarily have to repudiate everything about bushworld as a preliminary step to the longer-term process of restoring american credibility internationally.
|
Well I agree that the idea that, of all people, George W. Bush is the one capable of taking the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds, and bringing them all together into one harmonious, stable, united democracy, is one of the more absurd ironies of our time . . . .
But if Rosen is correct, then we can’t really wait three years for the next president. We need something substantial and valuable right now to offer the Sunnis that will provide an incentive to become a cooperative participant in the process. What they demand is withdrawal. Maybe though they will accept something less than that, something that we can afford. Whatever it is (and Bush rhetoric isn’t going to cut it with anybody anymore) it needs to be soon.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rekna
The US cannot win this war! This war can only be won by the Iraqis and as long as this war is the US against Iraqis we will loose it. We have removed Saddam from power, wasn't that our goal?
|
I agree this is the key right here. Bush has made the sophomoric mistake of defining victory in a way that guarantees that "victory" is impossible. I predict some creative, lawyerly waffling is in our near future
