First off, can I please chide you in your qualifying statement:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by rlbond86
No Bible stuff, please.
|
I want you to clarify that statement. Shall I talk about the sun without using the keywords :Warm, Bright, or Star? Is this a game of Taboo?
Are you suggesting that an argumnet that refers to the Bible is not worth reading, or are you trying to keep this discussion in the realm of scientific philosophy, using postulates and reductions of logic?
No, I am not about to quote scripture, but since my understanding of a higher power comes from the New International Version of the Bible, can I still participate in the discussion? If so, let me continue:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by rlbond86
...God cannot both be all-good and all-powerful.
Take the Holocaust, a clearly horrible tragedy in which 12 million were mercilessly slaughtered due to the will of an evil dictator.
God did not intervene.
|
Who says God did not intervene? You are making a broad statement, and I am putting the justification back on you. Please prove to me that God did not intervene. Maybe he did. Maybe he prevented the slaughter of millions more, but you and I could never know that, because we were not there, and cannot begin to understand the ways in which God works.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by rlbond86
This leads to three possibilities:
1. God wanted the Holocaust to happen: God, for some reason, MADE the Holocaust happen. It was His will. But clearly a good God would not murder 12 million of His creations, especially after that whole rainbow-covenant thing, if you believe that stuff.
|
No, I believe in the whole "Free will" scenario, and Hitler (along with the Nazi party) were exercising their fucked-up-sense-of-free-will.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by rlbond86
2. God did not intervene for some reason: One reason or another, God decided not to intervene. However, it seems odd that a good God would be apathetic to such a situation. Thus the only likely solution for this possibility is the "clockmaker" God, who created the universe but now does not intervene in events, or only works "small" miracles. Yet then, God would have restricted His powers and thus would no longer be all-powerful. But if God does not intervene at all, why pray at all? Unless he still works small miracles. Just don't ask for world peace  |
I agree most with this argument, but would re-word the explanation entirely.
Yes, God created the universe.
No, God does not intervene in events. Not because God can't, but because God knows everything, front and back, inside and out. God knows every atom, where it has been, where it is, and where it will go. God has seen it all, and has a Grand Plan worked out. Your questioning God's powers works into the plan, believe it or not. It all comes together at the end. With the end seen as Good, and as according to God's plan, there is no need to intervene in the rest, unless it is in THE PLAN.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by rlbond86
3. God could not intervene: God was powerless to stop Adolf Hitler, for some reason. Perhaps He cannot exert such a large influence, or perhaps something else. Or perhaps He is gone. Or stripped of His powers. Or being held captive in a God-power-proof prison. Or never existed at all. The point is, if this is the case, clearly He is not all powerful.
|
In my theological perspective, that is simply not the case. Personally, I belive the following:
God can intervene, but doesn't, because it is all acccording to plan.
God is all powerful, and can intervene, for any reason.
God can exert such influence to affect anything, at any time. There is no such thing as "Too large an influence" to God.
God is here. Right now. With you and me. And that sick little kid in Bangladesh who is starving to death as I type these words, God is with that child.
The idea of God being stripped of powers, or in a "God-Proof" anything does not compute in my logic. It simply cannot happen, like the square root of a negative number. It is something to imagine, but does not work out.
Well. That is all. God allowed the Holocaust (and every other bad thing that has ever happened to anyone, ever) to happen because it works out in the End, which God has seen. We cannot comprehend this. We look up and question, like a child to a parent... "Why are you so mean? Why won't you help me? Where were you when I needed you?"
The parent smiles, and knowing that everything has a purpose, cannot explain it to the child. "I did that to show you that I love you. You will understand when you are older."