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Originally Posted by feelgood
That's easy, mankind create atom bomb, atom bomb kills mankind
Does that make sense? Cuz, it sure made sense back in WWII...
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Now, now, now. The atom bomb was just minding its own business until we dropped it out the plane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezmot
So jesus was a sacrifice? And what you're saying is that God sacrificed himself to himself for our benefit. It seems more than a little confused.
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I'm not an overly religious guy, but let's see if I can pound an explanation out.
Jesus was a sacrifice. Said so Himself in Matthew 20:28 "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to
give His life a ransom for many." A 'man' who chose to sacrifice Himself to save humanity and fulfill God's Will. (John 3:16, no?) But even then it wasn't a sure thing. Jesus had to willingly allow himself to be 'slaughtered.' Remember, God doesn't force Jesus to do anything. He bribes him with visions like in the garden of Gethsemane (I hope I spelled that right), but he never says, "Jesus, get your ass to Jerusalem so I may have your fellow man smite thee." The guy could've left at anytime (he can walk on water, feed the multitudes, heal the lame and raise the dead and he's done in by a 'false friend' and captured by a handful of Roman soldiers?). He could've done his own thing and doomed all of us to oblivion.
The question of who sacrificed themselves and to whom is a much trickier question. I guess you have to decide whether you believe in Jesus' divinity or not. As I understand it his 'divinity' wasn't even established until that little meeting in Nicea some 1,600 years ago. If you believe God had a hand in that, and believe by extension that Jesus is in fact of divine being, then yes, God sacrificed himself to himself to save humanity. Water downs the story a bit, in my opinion, but there you have it.
Last bit...I promise..
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Originally Posted by dlishsguy
if this is not the case then, i dare say that the father has more power than jesus and jesus is a sub-ordinate of the father at best.
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Again another reference to the 'divinity' question, but instead of going that route again let's go this route.
Paul says, "the head of every man is Christ and the head of Christ is God" (1st Corinthians 11:3). Peter consistently refers to Jesus as a 'servant' (Acts 3:26 ; Acts 3:13) Jesus says himself (well, according to John) that he is but a servant to his 'father.' John 14:28; "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father:
for my Father is greater than I."
So, while they may share the same divine spark, if that's what you choose to believe, but they don't seem to be equals. So, what 'kills' (assuming he actually died and it wasn't his decision to do so) the son presumably isn't the same as what could 'kill' the father.