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Martian · 11-30-2005, 09:01 PM

match, I'm glad you feel ready to start applying your own judgement on this one. Aside from anything else, that's showing that confidence we're looking for. However, a few small points :

Probing is another word for pushing. Pushing puts her on the spot. Being put on the spot makes her uncomfortable, makes her feel attacked, makes her feel like she can't trust you. It's definitely not giving her air. Don't get impatient with this one - I have a hunch that she'll be worth the wait.

The gum thing was a huge sign. It's a frequent beginner's tip to chew gum before you expect to kiss somone (or be kissed), so that your breath is fresh. And here's why it was signifigant that it was in a drawer - had it been in her line of sight she may well have reacted. She saw it there and her reaction was to decide that she wanted a piece of gum. However, because it was in a drawer out of sight she didn't have that prompt - she had to think about it and make a conscious decision to get up, open the drawer and get out a piece of gum to chew on. If she were a habitual gum-chewer that wouldn't mean much, but if she isn't then there would have to be something that prompted her to have that thought. As she did it half way through the second movie, it's possible (not guaranteed) that the thinking process was "the movie's almost over and it's late > match000 will probably go home after the movie > match000 may try to kiss me > I want match000 to kiss me > match000 will not kiss me if my breath smells bad > if I chew a piece of gum my breath won't smell bad and match000 will kiss me."

I don't like this idea of confronting her and being "smooth". What is smooth? Who decides how to be smooth or how smooth you have to be? Here's what I'm hearing on that one :

Your friend isn't really sure how to proceed, but he thinks it would be best for you to find out how she feels. However, he's not sure how you should go about this. Therefore, he recommends the direct approach, but he doesn't want you to blame him if it goes wrong. So he tells you to "be smooth", which gives him an out; if it doesn't work, you just weren't "smooth" enough and it's not his advice that's faulty.

Again (and I can't stress this enough), all of this is up to your discretion. You say it's time to start using your own judgement, I say you've been doing that all along without even realizing it. The best and only thing I can do is relay my wisdom to you through advice and my own perspective; if you decide that I'm full of shit and have no idea what I'm talking about, that's your call to make. If you think I'm onto something but your friend has the better approach, that's your call to make too. Or if you decide nobody but you knows what this girl needs and therefore you should disregard everything anybody is telling you and use an approach that's completely different and entirely your own, well guess what? It's your decision.

I actively discourage you from blindly following every word I say. Use your own head and figure out if what I'm saying makes sense given your current situation. Take what everybody else is saying and figure out if any of that makes sense, too. Put it all together and use it all to come up with the best approach. I promise you that I will do my best not to steer you wrong, but the reality is that I'm only one person and that I'm strongly hindered by not knowing you or this girl. It's entirely possible that were I to meet you or her that I would tell you to disregard everything I've said and do something completely different. It's also possible that what I would tell you to do in that situation would also be wrong. It's ultimately up to you to make the choice here, right or wrong and the sooner you see that and are able to proceed confidently and accepting of the outcome either way, the better off you'll be.

Once more : confidence is key. I could say it a thousand times and still not have stressed it enough.

Best wishes,
Mars

EDIT - Mantus, I couldn't agree more. The only reason we're having this discussion is because she's terribly confused right now; she knows what she wants but she doesn't know if it's right for her to want it and even if it is she isn't sure how to go about getting it. I like what you say about working with someone instead of against them. Working with someone is being supportive, being considerate, being helpful and doing everything you can to reach a common goal. Working against someone is being pushy, delivering ultimatums, being impatient and generally going for what you want regardless of how it makes the other person feel. To me it's very apparent which is the better approach in this situation.

11-30-2005, 09:01 PM	#40 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	match, I'm glad you feel ready to start applying your own judgement on this one. Aside from anything else, that's showing that confidence we're looking for. However, a few small points : Probing is another word for pushing. Pushing puts her on the spot. Being put on the spot makes her uncomfortable, makes her feel attacked, makes her feel like she can't trust you. It's definitely not giving her air. Don't get impatient with this one - I have a hunch that she'll be worth the wait. The gum thing was a huge sign. It's a frequent beginner's tip to chew gum before you expect to kiss somone (or be kissed), so that your breath is fresh. And here's why it was signifigant that it was in a drawer - had it been in her line of sight she may well have reacted. She saw it there and her reaction was to decide that she wanted a piece of gum. However, because it was in a drawer out of sight she didn't have that prompt - she had to think about it and make a conscious decision to get up, open the drawer and get out a piece of gum to chew on. If she were a habitual gum-chewer that wouldn't mean much, but if she isn't then there would have to be something that prompted her to have that thought. As she did it half way through the second movie, it's possible (not guaranteed) that the thinking process was "the movie's almost over and it's late > match000 will probably go home after the movie > match000 may try to kiss me > I want match000 to kiss me > match000 will not kiss me if my breath smells bad > if I chew a piece of gum my breath won't smell bad and match000 will kiss me." I don't like this idea of confronting her and being "smooth". What is smooth? Who decides how to be smooth or how smooth you have to be? Here's what I'm hearing on that one : Your friend isn't really sure how to proceed, but he thinks it would be best for you to find out how she feels. However, he's not sure how you should go about this. Therefore, he recommends the direct approach, but he doesn't want you to blame him if it goes wrong. So he tells you to "be smooth", which gives him an out; if it doesn't work, you just weren't "smooth" enough and it's not his advice that's faulty. Again (and I can't stress this enough), all of this is up to your discretion. You say it's time to start using your own judgement, I say you've been doing that all along without even realizing it. The best and only thing I can do is relay my wisdom to you through advice and my own perspective; if you decide that I'm full of shit and have no idea what I'm talking about, that's your call to make. If you think I'm onto something but your friend has the better approach, that's your call to make too. Or if you decide nobody but you knows what this girl needs and therefore you should disregard everything anybody is telling you and use an approach that's completely different and entirely your own, well guess what? It's your decision. I actively discourage you from blindly following every word I say. Use your own head and figure out if what I'm saying makes sense given your current situation. Take what everybody else is saying and figure out if any of that makes sense, too. Put it all together and use it all to come up with the best approach. I promise you that I will do my best not to steer you wrong, but the reality is that I'm only one person and that I'm strongly hindered by not knowing you or this girl. It's entirely possible that were I to meet you or her that I would tell you to disregard everything I've said and do something completely different. It's also possible that what I would tell you to do in that situation would also be wrong. It's ultimately up to you to make the choice here, right or wrong and the sooner you see that and are able to proceed confidently and accepting of the outcome either way, the better off you'll be. Once more : confidence is key. I could say it a thousand times and still not have stressed it enough. Best wishes, Mars EDIT - Mantus, I couldn't agree more. The only reason we're having this discussion is because she's terribly confused right now; she knows what she wants but she doesn't know if it's right for her to want it and even if it is she isn't sure how to go about getting it. I like what you say about working with someone instead of against them. Working with someone is being supportive, being considerate, being helpful and doing everything you can to reach a common goal. Working against someone is being pushy, delivering ultimatums, being impatient and generally going for what you want regardless of how it makes the other person feel. To me it's very apparent which is the better approach in this situation. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame Last edited by Martian; 11-30-2005 at 09:05 PM..