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Originally Posted by shakran
No one is disagreeing that spanking a child CAN achieve behavior modification. However, what you are failing to consider is that there could be OTHER ways that could acheive the same modification with fewer unfortunate lessons - i.e. "if someone pisses you off enough, hit them and they'll stop."
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Spanking my son one time in his entire life... I guess if that was somehow an unfortunate lesson, than yes, zero would be less than one. I think you're a bit overzealous on the argument.
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Originally Posted by shakran
That's ridiculous. I have an engineer in my family that's an idiot too. That doesn't mean ALL engineers are useless. Let's think a little more before we denigrate an entire profession based on our relatives shall we?
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I'm not saying they're idiots, per se. It also was not based entirely on relatives, but also acquainances, professors and my own personal experience with psychologists and psychiatrists as well as the personal experiences of friends and family with non-familial psych-type folk.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Well let's see. I suppose that if we subscribe to your logic then medicine is also not a science. After all it used to be that doctors told us drinking alcohol was not good for you. Now red wine is good for your heart. I wonder how many people ended up with hearts that werent' as strong as they could have been because they avoided wine. I'm glad you mentioned plutonium. Back in the early days of nuclear research they didn't realize it was bad for you. Dick Feynman had a lump of ultra radioactive plutonium encased in gold. He used it as a doorstop. Marie Curie died from radiation poisoning from her work with radioactive materials. I suppose according to your logic that physics and geology aren't sciences either, since they once got radioactivity wrong resulting in people actually dying.
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I won't continue my argument on this point as I clearly did not put it the way I intended. I understand that no science is perfect. However, my experience with people in that profession is that there is an assumption that they are always right, and that their line of though is the best. Even within multiple "schools" of psychiatry. There are, that I'm aware of, no medical schools of thought that believe surgery is never an option, or that people with heart problems should just "bear the pain". Psychology still has a LONG way to grow before it is in the same league as other sciences. Sorry, that's an opinion, in case that wasn't clear.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Hey wow I'm really impressed! Over 260 million people in the United States alone and you manage to produce two whole people to back up your point!
Point being, you need actual statistics, not just a couple of personal examples if you want to make this point.
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I'm sorry, should I produce a small paper on this topic? I'm sure you would retort with an equal or greater number of examples which go the other way. I guess the reason for such debates is to illuminate different ideas. Something of this nature cannot realistically be proven one way or the other.
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Originally Posted by shakran
I would love to see your source for that. Hint: It will be difficult to back this statement up since "less than one might think" is not a quantifiable statement.
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Again, I wasn't aware that one needed a source to make an argument. This isn't a statistics class. Oh, and regarding statistics, they can be made to say anything. Without a deep background understanding of the supporting data, statistics are worthless. Quantification isn't everything... An example of this is:
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Originally Posted by shakran
How big of a moron do you think Willravel and other psychologists are? Do you not realize that they KNOW kids will do that, and can see through that?
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Again, I am not qualified to discuss the intelligence of Willravel. He seems to be a well adjusted individual that is able to have a good debate, so far as my experience in this thread is concerned. I do, however, think that many are not able to see through such a ruse. I pulled the wool over the eyes of more than one psychologist as a child. When my paretns divorced, after my dad died, during a period of depression. Realistically, psychology to some degree becomes a battle of smarts. Yes, they have training... but that training is only as good as how well they can use it.
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Originally Posted by shakran
I'm sorry that your utter lack of precision in your writing caused misinterpretations. But a spanking is pretty different from a "good ass kicking."
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Well, your interpretation is different than mine. If I had said blue and meant midnight blue, but you assumed baby blue... that was your interpretation... and neither of us are at any greater fault. Hence I clarified my statements. Don't be sorry... I'm not. *shrug*
BTW, does anyone here watch TV? Ever see "That 70's Show"? Red talks about putting his boot up eric's ass all the time, and I've yet to hear even the MOST left wing PC advocate say that the show advocated child abuse. I think the wording is fairly common practice.
edit for clarity?