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Old 11-21-2005, 06:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
ratbastid
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Why even have a political discussion?

Please note: This thread is NOT intended to talk specifics of politics. Any specific partisan talk or discussion of current events or policy, and I will immediately request that a moderator close this thread. Thank you.

In the aftermath of a certain thread here in TP that got way out of hand, I'm left with a deep concern about our ability in America (and the world, for all I know, though I'm not going to talk about anything but the US here) to have an actual, authentic debate on matters of politics.

In 1858, America reached what appears to be its highest point, in terms of political discourse. Abraham Lincon and Stephen A. Douglas, contending for a US Senate seat from Illinois, held a series of seven debates. Lincoln, a Republican and a relative unknown at the time, argued that the US could not survive as a nation split on the subject of slavery--this is where his quote "A house divided against itself cannot stand," comes from. Douglas, a Jefferson-style federalist Democrat, and the incumbent, argued that slavery was a matter best left to the states. He was a proponent of what was called "Popular Sovereinty"--reign by the people. There were other issues under debate, obviously, but slavery was the main one. Lincoln ended up losing the race, although he got more popuar votes than Douglas. More importantly, he made a name for himself with northern Republicans, setting him up for the nomination for the Presidency in 1860, and the rest is history.

Here's the thing: thousands and thousands of people turned out for these debates. While there certainly were partisan lines, people largely came to hear the candidate's views and to make up their minds for themselves--not only about whom to support, but about whose approach was the better one for Illinois and the nation. The amazing thing is this: at that time (and until 1913), US Senators were elected directly by state legislatures. In spite of that, Lincoln and Douglas took their message straight to the people. It was a foundation for some of the most influential political thought in the history of our young nation. And from the perspective 150 years later, it was a remarkable occurrance.

What I'm seeing these days is the opposite of all that. It seems impossible to have a discussion of political matters without the lines drawn ahead of time. The notion of debate as a shaper of public opinion and will seems to be completely dead.

I watched the Senate debate late Friday night on C-SPAN, and here's what I noticed. There was not even a pretense that the debate on the floor might change somebody's vote. Voting was predetermined before the resolution even hit the floor. Senators appeared to be speaking largely for the sound bite, or for the front page of their constituents' hometown newspaper. The whole thing smacked of stage play, not of statesmanship.

Here on TFP, where we pride ourselves on openness and inclusivity, it's roughly the same. A matter will come up, and we already know where most everyone is going to come down on it. We pretty much know how Ustwo will feel about it. We have a sense of what roachboy will say. I might have already seen a third of the articles host will quote.

And you know, for myself, to be perfectly honest, I know that my opinions are my opinions, and as far as I'm honestly concerned, there's really nothing anyone can say to change them. I'd like to think that new information might cause me to re-examine my opinions, but in practice, that doesn't happen very much.

I see this in my offline life too. Most of my friends (not all, but most) generally agree with me on political matters. Fact is, if somebody disagreed with me, and was vocal and strident about it, I doubt I could be their friend for very long. I'd probably claim it was nothing personal about them--but, let's be honest, what kind of horrible person disagrees with me? It inevitably turns personal. I might be able to humor them for a while, but I honestly doubt if real friendship would be possible. This makes me very sad, both for myself, and because I know I'm pretty typical in this matter.

I'm noticing a lack of thought rampant out there. Agreement or disagreement takes zero thought. That's all reflex. I can't remember the last time I heard anybody in a political discussion say, "Hunh! That's interesting! I'd never thought about it like that before! I can see your point!" Just doesn't happen.

Friends, is this what it has come to? Can we no longer talk about important national matters without divisiveness? Are we unable to see past our own opinions, party lines, and talking points long enough to even hear what others might be saying? Must we automatically, reflexively shoot down anything we disagree with, without applying even a smidgen of thought to it? We're all Americans, we're all human beings. How did we come to this?

I'll be honest, I'm pretty resigned about it. Maybe we should all just shut up. Maybe we should just let the polititians talk and let the media talk, and all form our own opinion, and vote the way we vote, and just shut the hell up about it. It seems to me to be entirely hopeless that we could ever actually discuss political matters with anybody.

On the other hand, if there's one group of people who can impact it, and impact it on a global scale, it's TFP.

What do you think?
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