Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post

raveneye · 11-18-2005, 05:49 AM

The new thread title I think deserves a little more than my original flip response . . .

Bush is the president of the most powerful nation on earth. Regardless of how ignorant and pliable and biased he is, regardless of his ability to convince himself of the gospel truth of just about anything he wants to believe about "how the world works," regardless of how manipulated he is and has been by his staff and handlers, regardless of how complex the desiderata are on the question of whether to go to war, how impossible it is to make a final calculus that involves the potential great loss of life, including innocent life -- nevertheless he, the leader of the free world, Commander in Chief, must take full, 100% responsibility for anything done in the name of his office.

The truth is, as host, Elphaba, and others have I think convincingly pointed out in this thread and others: his office deliberately attempted to deceive Congress, the American public, and the world about the magnitude of the threat posed by Hussein. And he did so in order to rationalize the launching of a major war of aggression and occupation by U.S. forces that has resulted in the deaths of over 2000 soldiers and the dismemberment of maybe another 40,000.

Now you can say, and you would be right, that this is no surprise, this is the way things work in Washington. Everybody is duping everybody else, baiting and switching, obfuscating, shaming, grandstanding, exaggerating, polemicizing etc. in order to compete for a piece of the political pie. That's how it works, and both sides do it all the time, are doing it as I type, were doing it 200 years ago and will be doing it 200 years after we're gone.

BUT . . . . one would hope, that when the stakes are this high, we would know that we need to come together as human beings, as brothers and sisters, as fathers, sons, daughters with common cause, as a family, as a united nation, and drop the charade and political one-upmanship, drop the duping and granstanding, the politics as usual, and make a decision as momentous as this, with complete honesty, forthrightness, integrity, with everything laid out on the table, with TOTAL respect for everyone's informed point of view regardless of past squabbles, regardless of what side of what issue anyone was on at any other time.

Bush's office was completely incapable of doing this. He, our leader, could not be trusted to be honest and forthright. Any arguments about, technically, whether he "lied" or not, is like Clinton arguing about the definition of "sex". The fact is that this presidency has shown itself, when it matters the most, when lives are at stake, when our international reputation and integrity is on the wire, when we most need to come together as a people, to be not worth our trust.

So yes, the president is responsible. Yes, this is a shameful indictment of both his office and his person. And yes, the vice president is correct, this is "reprehensible".

11-18-2005, 05:49 AM	#41 (permalink)
raveneye Born Against	The new thread title I think deserves a little more than my original flip response . . . Bush is the president of the most powerful nation on earth. Regardless of how ignorant and pliable and biased he is, regardless of his ability to convince himself of the gospel truth of just about anything he wants to believe about "how the world works," regardless of how manipulated he is and has been by his staff and handlers, regardless of how complex the desiderata are on the question of whether to go to war, how impossible it is to make a final calculus that involves the potential great loss of life, including innocent life -- nevertheless he, the leader of the free world, Commander in Chief, must take full, 100% responsibility for anything done in the name of his office. The truth is, as host, Elphaba, and others have I think convincingly pointed out in this thread and others: his office deliberately attempted to deceive Congress, the American public, and the world about the magnitude of the threat posed by Hussein. And he did so in order to rationalize the launching of a major war of aggression and occupation by U.S. forces that has resulted in the deaths of over 2000 soldiers and the dismemberment of maybe another 40,000. Now you can say, and you would be right, that this is no surprise, this is the way things work in Washington. Everybody is duping everybody else, baiting and switching, obfuscating, shaming, grandstanding, exaggerating, polemicizing etc. in order to compete for a piece of the political pie. That's how it works, and both sides do it all the time, are doing it as I type, were doing it 200 years ago and will be doing it 200 years after we're gone. BUT . . . . one would hope, that when the stakes are this high, we would know that we need to come together as human beings, as brothers and sisters, as fathers, sons, daughters with common cause, as a family, as a united nation, and drop the charade and political one-upmanship, drop the duping and granstanding, the politics as usual, and make a decision as momentous as this, with complete honesty, forthrightness, integrity, with everything laid out on the table, with TOTAL respect for everyone's informed point of view regardless of past squabbles, regardless of what side of what issue anyone was on at any other time. Bush's office was completely incapable of doing this. He, our leader, could not be trusted to be honest and forthright. Any arguments about, technically, whether he "lied" or not, is like Clinton arguing about the definition of "sex". The fact is that this presidency has shown itself, when it matters the most, when lives are at stake, when our international reputation and integrity is on the wire, when we most need to come together as a people, to be not worth our trust. So yes, the president is responsible. Yes, this is a shameful indictment of both his office and his person. And yes, the vice president is correct, this is "reprehensible".