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Originally Posted by politicophile
Here, in my own words, is the comparison Host is trying to make:
"The American people of 2005 are passively allowing the government to get away with fabricating intelligence about the war in Iraq, operate secret CIA prisons where torture is occuring, etc. The Nazi Germans likewise turned a blind eye to the atrocities being committed by their government. For this reason, the American people are suffering from the "good German" syndrome we saw in Germany during WWII."
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More than that, he's asking what beyond talking we are willing to do to make sure our government is not out of control, but yes, that's about right!
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Originally Posted by politicophile
Now, here are the unstated premises I see in the argument:
-The response of the American public to Bush's crimes has been very similar to that of the Germans to Hitler
-The crimes committed by Bush are very similar to those committed by Hitler
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Not necessarily. When comparing two things, levels of severity can be relative. For example. I can compare a Taco Bell burrito with a burrito from a 4 star Mexican restaurant. They are not to the same degree, but are similar enough to compare in a given situation where the comparison is apt. Again, Bush has not committed genocide yet. Until he has, in my mind, he is not on the same level as Hitler. This however, does not make them incomparable (did I just make up a word?). Likewise, we are not ignoring WW2 or holocaust level atrocities happening right now. We are ignorning breeches of the Geneva convention and constitution, that should be alarming. We are ignoring either falsification or minipulation of facts in order to start a war of aggression. These are not on the same level, but are comparable.
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Originally Posted by politicophile
The first premise is very obviously included in the argument because this is precisely what is implied by the "good German" argument. It is also, of course, false. For starters, there is, to the best of my knowledge, no plot within Bush's inner circle to kill him. Additionally, it is widely reported by the media that Bush is extremely unpopular amongst the people. And finally, the internet, CNN, etc. is filled with criticism of Bush's actions. None of these factors were present in the "good German" scenerio, so the comparison was a poor one from the outset.
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You are being too literal. Exaggerating the argument of one's opponent does not make your point correct.
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Originally Posted by politicophile
The second premise is far less obvious, so let me explain why I think it is necessary to include it:
If we agree that the crimes respectively committed by Bush and Hitler are NOT very similar, then the "good German" syndrome is watered down to basically mean that the American people didn't rebel against a government that committed crimes. While it is true that the people didn't overthrow Bush's government, I don't think this is something that the people should be faulted for. Surely, Host, you are not advocating that all governments that commit crimes should be overthrown? If so, shouldn't we have started an insurrection against Bill Clinton, who lied under oath?
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Overthrown? No. Kept in check? Hell yes! There are many actions one can take against a government that is comitting crimes. I suggest legal routes, personally. Boycots, demonstrations, and other peacful resistences are most effective.
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Originally Posted by politicophile
you agree that we should not overthrow all governments that commit crimes, but continue to believe that we should overthrow the Bush administration, then you are buying into the comparison between Bush's crimes and Hitler's. How else would you be able to say that Bush's crimes are so severe that he should be thrown from power?
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I'm too lazy to overthrow a government. Let's just hold those in government responsible for their actions and call it a night.