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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Yes, let us ignore past times of conflict and focus on the recent past. Those interment camps didn't really count after all, I mean even the children forced to live in those camps are getting close retirement. I only bring up the camps since they were the most blatant loss of civil liberty in living memory, but it is hardly the first time Americans lost rights in times of conflict, and far more rights than the supposed loss of rights we now must 'endure'.
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I forget, were we the agressors in WW2, or was it Japan? Hy history's a little rusty. Yes, those were terrible times. Those were terrible losses of libery for American citizens. I feel angry that the US was willing to do something so extreme. Of course, the question was "in the past 30 years", so even mentioning this is ignoring the parameters of the question.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Perhaps you would care to compare Bush to the West Wing or some other arbitrary measure designed to make your side 'look good'? Not to get snide here, but I find your argument sad based on the circumstances we face. To me it says 'I am young, I only understand what has happened to me in my adult life time, the past doesn't matter as I wasn't alive then.'
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That was a different thread. If you want to address those issues, I welcome you to post some in that thread.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
The Patriot act is the most overhyped document in the last 30 years of US history. I have read the claims, and then read the document, most often the two did not meet. It has become the straw man, which has not changed ANY of our lives one iota, but is waved about as the equivalent of mien kampf and before the good Mr. Goodwin is invoked, you need not look further than this board to see such logic in action by those who oppose this administration.
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Ask Brandon Mayfield who was wrongly accused by the government of involvement in the Madrid bombing as a result of evidence, including mistaken fingerprint identification, that fell apart after the FBI re-examined its case following its arrest and detention on Mayfield on a material witness warrant if he has been effected one iota.
Ask Tariq Ramadan, who is regarded as a leading moderate Muslim intellectuals, and had his visa revoked to teach at the University of Notre Dame under Section 411 of the Patriot Act, which permits the government to exclude non-citizens from the country if in the government’s view they have “used [their] position of prominence to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or to persuade others to support terrorist activity" if he has been effected.
The Patriot Act is unconstitutional.
In Doe v. Ashcroft, a federal district court struck down a “national security letter” records power expanded by the section 505(a) of the Patriot Act, noting that the failure to provide any explicit right for a recipient to challenge a such a broad national security letter search order power violated the Fourth Amendment.
In Humanitarian Law Project v. Ashcroft, the court held that specific phrases in Title 18 Section 2339A, as amended by the Patriot Act section 805(a)(2)(B), violated First Amendment free speech rights and Fifth Amendment due process rights.
(information above came from
http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatr...constitutional)
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
So as for the last 30 years I really can not say if we have 'lost more rights'. I can say the bill of rights has not been infringed, and its rather difficult to say how the laws on surveillance and such have changed over the last 30 years to know if we have lost anything in the past or more in the last 5 years. I can state that communication technology has greatly changed in the last 30 years and as such, whatever laws we had are quite antiquated, or do you think that in 1975 they foresaw cell phones, the internet, and 128 bit encryption and wrote the laws accordingly?
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I'm sorry, did you just admit that you can't name any revocations of liberty in the last 30 years that compares to the current losses? Just trying to clairify.