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Originally Posted by rsl12
That being said, I think you'll agree that the biological aspect of ID is the really the meat of the matter--it's what Kansas Board of Education and Flying Spaghetti Monsterists have gotten all excited about! ID proponents are claiming that ID is an alternative theory to evolution--I think it's the ID ideas that are directly in conflict with evolution that are of interest to most people.
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ID was created solely to conflict with evolution and wedge creationism back into the classroom. that's why people have gotten so excited about it.
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Originally Posted by rsl12
not at all. see methods 2 and 3: i would accept, as proof, finding the designers and asking them questions about how they did it, finding specialized tools that were used in the creation of various organs/animals, finding detailed notes regarding the design progress, perhaps with copies of prototypes.
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ID is about god. the whole 'it could be aliens' thing is just a nice way for the propents of ID to say 'well, uh, it doesn't have to be god... it could be aliens... we don't really talk about the designer anyways.'
so how would you identify the tools used by a god to design life, to design and create a universe? not only that, why would god need tools. according to genisis, he just needed to say 'let there be...'
as to finding the designer, short of god beaming himself down to earth and holding a press conference and magic show, it's not giong to happen.
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Originally Posted by rsl12
And I still maintain that supernatural claims can be subject to testing. If Uri Gellar does not manage to bend a spoon in controlled conditions, he may convince himself that it was because there was something wrong with the energy in the room, but the rational-minded folks observing the test may conclude very differently.
What makes a claim untestable stems from other issues: lack of reproducibility, lack of observable and unique repercussions, etc.
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with uri, we can tell he's full of shit when he fails the test of bending the spoon. but how do we test a supernatural claim when the only people making that claim aren't the source of the supernatural event?