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Originally Posted by Seaver
Everyone HAS a chance in America. If your parents are dead broke you still get a free education.
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Do you honestly believe this (the part about everyone having a chance, esp because of access to education)??? I don't know where you're from, but in Chicago (just as an example, this is true in most urban areas) the majority of people attending Chicago public schools are non-white. Many of the schools rate *TERRIBLY* when comparing test scores, drop-out rates, avg grades, etc, especially when compared to the public schools in the mostly white suburbs. This is the case all over the country - public school systems with predominantly minority students, most especially urban public school systems, compare terribly to their counterparts. You have one of two stances to take based on this: either you think minorities are biologically and/or culturually incapable of success, accounting for their higher drop-out rates, lower performance, and so forth - perhaps you think there is a black laziness gene? - in which case I have no qualm about calling you a racist, or you acknowledge that everyone does NOT have a chance in America.
On top of that, aside for the kids who are fully capable but will never get a chance because they were simply born to the wrong family in the wrong neighborhood, what about the kids who were REALLY born to the wrong family - let's say the kid who has developmental problems because of childhood malnutrition since the family couldn't afford to feed her, or perhaps one who has poor development because of drug use during pregnancy - where do they get the same opportunities? Free education does not necessarily mean good education. I got a free high school education - went to the public high school in my suburban neighborhood, which happens to be predominantly white - and I can tell you right now, with absolutely no question about it, my free high school education was - and I am not exaggerating here -
*1000x* better than any public education your average minority kid in the Chicago public school system could EVER hope for.
There isn't a question about it. It is a simple FACT - everyone does NOT have a chance in America. I have not seen a SINGLE reliable study which suggests otherwise with regards to educational opportunities and poverty - and I should know, it's essentially what I've been concentrating on for the past 18 months of my life. Now, either you think education is worthless and want to reject what amounts to an essentially unanimous finding in academia - in which case, your argument about a free education is moot anyway - or you accept the fact that not everyone in America has the same opportunities - or, for some, any realistic opportunities at all.
It's one thing to argue that raising the minimum wage will hurt the economy. I don't agree, but it's not an unreasonable argument. There's a certain amount of logic behind it at least. But to honestly argue that everyone in America has an opportunity, and especially that they have an equal one, is simply incomprehensible.
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Originally Posted by Seaver
Those countries also have economies that'd cause an uproar if it happened here. Their jobs are getting outsourced to the point that their unemployment levels are close to what they were during much of the depression (15% is the average at the moment I think).
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That's very true. Poverty takes a different face in different cultures though - it's more than simply how much money you're making. Just as the economies of those countries would cause an uproar over here, our economy would cause an uproar over there. To us, 15% unemployment is absolutely disasterous. To them, giving people income below what one can reasonably be expected to live with is unacceptable. They both have their problems. With a 15% unemployment rate but government subsidies to ensure people live reasonably well, you run into problems such as depression, loss of motivation, etc - all things which unemployment, or a lack of purpose, can bring to a person. The problem shows its face in a different way here - people growing up in a materialist culture that tells them to get the flashiest, biggest, and most expensive of everything when they can't even afford to own a car that gets them to work reliably for example. It sure feels pretty crappy when you feel rejected by your own culture. Again, a source of major depression and stress. The point is, neither face of poverty is better than the other - 15% unemployment is unacceptable, but so is having such a HUGE gap between the rich and the poor (and basically no middle class). It's just a matter of two different cultural faces on the issue.