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JumpinJesus · 10-30-2005, 08:19 AM

I'm not an economist so any input I can give here is based solely on what I consider to be my own common sense, which might not be very well developed, so consider that before reading what I have to say.

It would seem that these are the following the arguments made so far -

1. Raising the minimum wage will result in increased operating costs for businesses thus resulting in higher costs for consumers, thereby negating any positive effect of a minimum wage increase.

2. Paying CEOs and other executives large salaries is an incentive to produce better products and make for a better company.

3. Raising the minimum wage will lead to an increase in the cost of living, again negating any positive effect of a wage increase.

4. Paying certain jobs a higher amount trivializes the work done by educated workers by paying uneducated workers a salary nearly commensurate with theirs.

Here is where I chime in. Wealth and poverty are relative terms in that they are dependent upon the definition of each other in order to have any real meaning. In order for wealth to exist, poverty must exist. One cannot exist without the other. If we are to decrease the amount of poverty, the only way to accomplish this is to decrease the amount of wealth. This is where point #4 makes sense. If I find that I will no longer make as much money as an uneducated worker, then where is my motivation to become a more educated worker? Some people have an intrinsic motivation to become educated, many do not. With no incentive to get a better education, few will do it. Also, this can have the result of demeaning education since many will realize that they can still make a good wage without one.

On to point #1: If increasing wages will have the inevitable result of increased costs, then wouldn't it stand to follow that stagnant wages should result in stagnant costs? Yet consumer prices on many products continue to increase without the benefit of a wage increase. Consumers' buying power is reduced due to stagnant wages. Wouldn't this have more of a negative impact on our economy?

Point #2: If higher salaries for CEOs is good for business, then why are higher wages for their employees bad for business? I honestly do not follow this logic.

Point #3 is similar to point #1 so I will say refer to that point.

Families making minimum wage often qualify for the Earned Income Credit on their taxes, which some might say could qualify for an increased wage due to the fact that their tax responsibility is nil due to their wages. So, with lower wages, we lose a large tax base and on top of that, use tax money to give them the EIC. This makes no sense. If they are paid a higher wage, they now are contributing to the tax base instead of pulling from it. And this is bad because....?

Someone mentioned envy and arrogance in an above post. I'm certain that envy plays a part in the lower wage earners desire to earn more, but I don't think arrogance plays any part whatsoever.

The envy comes from the lower class. The arrogance comes from the upper class.

It is arrogant to believe that one is more deserving of a particular lifestyle based solely on one's education, which is a major factor in determining wages. There are those struggling in low-income jobs whose character far outshines many who are six figure earners. What would we say if wages were tied to character traits instead and had nothing to do with education.

I sometimes believe that education is a somewhat arbitrary way to determine wages since most jobs and careers train you anyways once you're hired. On the job training is far more valuable than a 4 year degree, in my opinion. Instead of basing employment on education, base it on character then train the best person to perform that particular job. If we're going to use arbitrary means to determine wages, make it one that gives the most deserving character a high salary and leaves the greedy CEOs who will eventually rob their employees' pension funds begging with an empty coffee cup.

10-30-2005, 08:19 AM	#29 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I'm not an economist so any input I can give here is based solely on what I consider to be my own common sense, which might not be very well developed, so consider that before reading what I have to say. It would seem that these are the following the arguments made so far - 1. Raising the minimum wage will result in increased operating costs for businesses thus resulting in higher costs for consumers, thereby negating any positive effect of a minimum wage increase. 2. Paying CEOs and other executives large salaries is an incentive to produce better products and make for a better company. 3. Raising the minimum wage will lead to an increase in the cost of living, again negating any positive effect of a wage increase. 4. Paying certain jobs a higher amount trivializes the work done by educated workers by paying uneducated workers a salary nearly commensurate with theirs. Here is where I chime in. Wealth and poverty are relative terms in that they are dependent upon the definition of each other in order to have any real meaning. In order for wealth to exist, poverty must exist. One cannot exist without the other. If we are to decrease the amount of poverty, the only way to accomplish this is to decrease the amount of wealth. This is where point #4 makes sense. If I find that I will no longer make as much money as an uneducated worker, then where is my motivation to become a more educated worker? Some people have an intrinsic motivation to become educated, many do not. With no incentive to get a better education, few will do it. Also, this can have the result of demeaning education since many will realize that they can still make a good wage without one. On to point #1: If increasing wages will have the inevitable result of increased costs, then wouldn't it stand to follow that stagnant wages should result in stagnant costs? Yet consumer prices on many products continue to increase without the benefit of a wage increase. Consumers' buying power is reduced due to stagnant wages. Wouldn't this have more of a negative impact on our economy? Point #2: If higher salaries for CEOs is good for business, then why are higher wages for their employees bad for business? I honestly do not follow this logic. Point #3 is similar to point #1 so I will say refer to that point. Families making minimum wage often qualify for the Earned Income Credit on their taxes, which some might say could qualify for an increased wage due to the fact that their tax responsibility is nil due to their wages. So, with lower wages, we lose a large tax base and on top of that, use tax money to give them the EIC. This makes no sense. If they are paid a higher wage, they now are contributing to the tax base instead of pulling from it. And this is bad because....? Someone mentioned envy and arrogance in an above post. I'm certain that envy plays a part in the lower wage earners desire to earn more, but I don't think arrogance plays any part whatsoever. The envy comes from the lower class. The arrogance comes from the upper class. It is arrogant to believe that one is more deserving of a particular lifestyle based solely on one's education, which is a major factor in determining wages. There are those struggling in low-income jobs whose character far outshines many who are six figure earners. What would we say if wages were tied to character traits instead and had nothing to do with education. I sometimes believe that education is a somewhat arbitrary way to determine wages since most jobs and careers train you anyways once you're hired. On the job training is far more valuable than a 4 year degree, in my opinion. Instead of basing employment on education, base it on character then train the best person to perform that particular job. If we're going to use arbitrary means to determine wages, make it one that gives the most deserving character a high salary and leaves the greedy CEOs who will eventually rob their employees' pension funds begging with an empty coffee cup. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses