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Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
Funny you should bring up Clinton, the king of technicalities. When he was selling missile technology to the Chinese, I don't recall anyone being concerned about the risk to American lives.
Guess they were too busy discussing what the definition of "is" is. It also looks like Libby has a great deal more class than Clinton, even though he's not guilty, according to this:
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Indicting a man for "outing" an agent whose cover has been blown for ten years is certainly, to use your words, "bullshit and a technicality." |
As pointed out above the Wash. Times is not a newspaper and I personally will never pay nor read ANYTHING from them as their Bush supporting owner the Reverend Moon has "sold" 12 (count them TWELVE) nuclear subs to North Korea and he funnels money to them. Sooooo why would I want to support or believe ANYTHING in a rag, where the owner gives money to an enemy that truly wants to destroy us.
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The Rev. Sun Myung Moon's business empire, which includes the conservative Washington Times, paid millions of dollars to North Korea's communist leaders in the early 1990s when the hard-line government needed foreign currency to finance its weapons programs, according to U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency documents.
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LINK: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/101100a.html
A nice article here that there isn't room to print about how Moon has used the TIMES to spew Anti-American hatred among other juicy tidbits: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b0ea3d54ee8.htm
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Moon Helps North Koreans Get Nuclear Missile Subs
Apparently, North Korea has the ability to launch nuclear missiles from submarines and strike the United States. The missiles are North Korea's project, but the ballistic missile submarines are from Russian and, it seems, were purchased for them by Rev. Sun Myung Moon - owner of the right-wing rag The Washington Times.
According to Reuters:
"It would fundamentally alter the missile threat posed by the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) and could finally provide its leadership with something that it has long sought to obtain -- the ability to directly threaten the continental U.S.," [Jane's Defense Weekly] said. ... "It's pretty certain the North Koreans would not be developing these unless they were intended for weapons of mass destruction warheads, and the nuclear warhead is far and away the most potent of those," he told Reuters. ... Pyongyang was also helped by the purchase, through a Japanese trading company, of 12 decommissioned Russian Foxtrot-class and Golf II-class submarines which were sold for scrap in 1993.
John Gorenfeld writes:
Where does Kim get those wonderful toys? Funny story: According to U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency documents ... they were furnished by Reverend Moon. ... [A] Times article, on May 24, 1994, downplayed the significance of the sale. Without disclosing that it was the newspaper owner's parent company that gave a Secret Santa gift of missile tech to the Kim empire, the Times reported that the subs were useless...
Is anyone else bothered by this? One of the biggest financial backers of American conservative ideas and movements has, in effect, made it possible for a brutal dictator to park ballistic missile submarines off the American coast and threaten nuclear holocaust if his demands aren’t met — and, even if they are, he might just go ahead and launch anyway because in addition to being brutal, he’s looney as well.
And what does the Bush administration intend to do about this? Nothing, I expect.
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LINK: http://atheism.about.com/b/a/103671.htm
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August 04, 2004
The Rev. Mr. Moon and North Korean WMD
Is this a hoax? Or is it true that the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church give North Korea the Russian missile submarines from which they have now successfully copied intermediate range ballistic missile launchers?
If it's not a hoax, why isn't it front-page news?
Given the new Messiah's power in American media and politics, I would have thought that his helping to give one of the Axis of Evil the potential capacity to deliver nuclear weapons against U.S. cities would have been worth a certain amount of attention.
[The New York Times reports, in Thursday's paper, that U.S. officials acknowledge that the North Koreans have developed the launchers, but are "unworried" because the North Koreans don't (yet) have submarines to put them on, and the officials "expressed doubts" (without giving reasons) that it would occur to the North Koreans to mount the launchers on freighters and thus gain the capability of attacking the U.S. mainland. No mention of Mr. Moon's role in the transaction.]
Again, I don't know how much of this to believe. That North Korea now has ballistic missile launchers based on designs from Russian subs acquired during the 1990s seems solidly established, unless Reuters is grossly misquoting Jane's Defense Weekly or someone sold Jane's a bill of goods and Jane's managed to fool the NY Times and the U.S. government.
So the open question (open for me: someone else may know the answer, and if so I'd love to hear about it, either way) is whether the Rev. Mr. Moon actually bought the Russian subs for the Beloved Leader.
John Gorenfeld links to these authentic-looking declassified DIA documents, which he credits to a FOIA request by Robert Parry. The smoking-gun sentences occur at the end of p. 2 and the beginning of p. 3 of Document 2:
In Jan94, a Japanese trading company "Touen Imoji" in Suginami-Ku, Tokyo, purchased 12 F and G class submaries from the Russian Pacific Fleet Headquarters. These submarines wer then sold to a KN [= North Korean] trading company. Although this transaction garnered a great deal of coverage in the Japanese press, it was not disclosed at the time that Touen Shoji is an affiliate of the Unification Church.
I don't know Gorenfeld's work or Parry's (that's no reflection on them, of course; I don't follow investigative journalism closely enough to know the players); Atrios links to the item as if it were the truth, and so does Nick Confessore at Tapped, but neither explicitly says that Gorenfield and Parry are to be relied on. If they are, this looks to me like a huge story.
I can understand why the daily press finds it a little bit hard to cover: the sale of the subs is ten-year-old news (note Gorenfeld's quotation from a contemporary Washington Times story pooh-poohing the theat). Jane's creates a current news hook by reporting that the fear at the time -- that North Korea would be able to reverse-engineer the missle launchers -- has proven to be real.
But to get the full story you need to take the step Gorenfeld takes: showing that the Rev. Mr. Moon -- friend of (Republican) Presidents, honored as the Messiah at a Capitol Hill shindig sponsored by the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, owner of the semi-official Republican organ in the capital -- was engaged in arming what may well be the most dangerous regime on Earth with delivery capacity for weaons of mass destruction.
The apparent complicity of the Washington Times with the plot raises some very difficult legal and Constitutional questions. Does the First Amendment make it impossible to prevent by law a hostile foreign power from wielding the political influence that comes with owning a major newspaper in the nation's capital? Perhaps it does. (Though the Foreign Agents Registration Act may criminalize some of these shenaningans.)
But nothing in the Constitution prevents patriots from refusing to (1) work for the Washington Times; (2) advertise in the Washington Times; (3) buy the Washington Times; (4) give press credentials to reporters for the Washington Times; or (5) give interviews, and especially leaks, to the Washington Times.
If this story proves to be false, I will quickly and loudly retract it. But it it does not prove to be false, it demands action. Mr. Moon, and his newspaper, must become and remain pariahs.
(And, in my view, now that the North Koreans have missile launchers, any further effort on their part to develop warheads demands a pre-emptive attack.
One of the many, many bad results of the foolishness about WMDs in the run-up to the Iraq War, and the quagmire the occupation has developed into, is that it has greatly weakened the hand of the US against Iran and North Korea. But no matter how much the South Koreans fear the results, from a U.S. viewpoint there is no objective in that part of the world nearly as important as making sure that Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego don't glow in the dark.
But that's a longer story, to be told by those who are professionals rather than amateurs: i.e., not by the proprietor of this space.)
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LINK: http://www.markarkleiman.com/archive...korean_wmd.php
I can go on and on and on..... Needless to say, IMHO support the TImes and MOON = support to our dear close friends N. Korea....... I just can't do it but by all means there are those Neocons that can wave their flags and continue doing so.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
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