Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post

FatFreeGoodness · 10-04-2005, 06:32 AM

Shakran: You got it exactly right. I’m astonished that so many people can’t see this even after thinking and discussing it.

ohh_shesus: Your statistics are flawed, and actually show the opposite of what you claim. You state: “…the FBI website lists statistics and surprisingly blacks are not much more the cause of murders than white people. In fact, men are the main problem if you all insist on jumping on this bandwagon. The statistics I found are that of murder offenders the 63.7% are males, 7% are females and 29.3% are unknown. For the race part of the equation: 32% are white, 35.7% are black, 1.9% are other, and 30.4% are unknown.” You ignore two important points: (1) Not all crimes are murder. (2) If blacks commit 35.7% of murders while comprising only about 13% of the total population, then your figures show they are indeed statistically far more likely to commit a murder than someone of a different race.

JumpinJesus: I also don’t think the comment is racist. It does show a recognition that (currently) a black child growing up is more likely to be involved in a crime than the average “non-black” child. Recognizing occurrence associated with race is not by itself racist.
Observation: Evaluate the claim “If you only wanted to reduce the measured crime rate in this county, you could leave all crimes committed by or against black people out of the figures.” Would this be true? Of course. It’s also functionally equivalent to the statement you claim is racist.
Does this mean the crime is actually related to the color of their skin? Of course not. Does it make the action desirable? No.
You also make the claim that ‘just because blacks are convicted of crimes at a far higher rate than the rest of the population does not prove that they actually commit crimes at a rate higher than the rest of the population.’ Tenuous, but technically true. However, if you look at the highest crime areas in the country, you find them mostly almost completely black. Unless you believe that the criminals and victims are imported into the area, this confirms the statement that the crime rate among blacks is indeed higher than the average.
However, that a racial statistic is "true" does not show it is a characteristic of the race. It would once have been true that virtually all golfing events were dominated by whites. While both true and a racial statistic, it does not show that golfing skills are in any way related to being white.
It's true that most black people are law abiding. It’s also true that crime is in no way DIRECTLY related to skin color. Neither point is relevant to Bennetts comment.

Everyone:

1) Bennett is well known as loudly and publicly anti-abortion. It would not occur to him that that a comment including the words “you could abort every black baby” might be taken as his seriously advocating such abortions.
2) Bennett’s comment is not satire. It is hyperbole. They are different.
3) I agree that using race in the comment was unfortunate, in that so many people will (mostly unintentionally) distort the meaning and take offense. However, he was talking live, and responding to comments made by someone else. It’s not like he carefully worked out the best way to make the point.

10-04-2005, 06:32 AM	#35 (permalink)
FatFreeGoodness Tilted	Shakran: You got it exactly right. I’m astonished that so many people can’t see this even after thinking and discussing it. ohh_shesus: Your statistics are flawed, and actually show the opposite of what you claim. You state: “…the FBI website lists statistics and surprisingly blacks are not much more the cause of murders than white people. In fact, men are the main problem if you all insist on jumping on this bandwagon. The statistics I found are that of murder offenders the 63.7% are males, 7% are females and 29.3% are unknown. For the race part of the equation: 32% are white, 35.7% are black, 1.9% are other, and 30.4% are unknown.” You ignore two important points: (1) Not all crimes are murder. (2) If blacks commit 35.7% of murders while comprising only about 13% of the total population, then your figures show they are indeed statistically far more likely to commit a murder than someone of a different race. JumpinJesus: I also don’t think the comment is racist. It does show a recognition that (currently) a black child growing up is more likely to be involved in a crime than the average “non-black” child. Recognizing occurrence associated with race is not by itself racist. Observation: Evaluate the claim “If you only wanted to reduce the measured crime rate in this county, you could leave all crimes committed by or against black people out of the figures.” Would this be true? Of course. It’s also functionally equivalent to the statement you claim is racist. Does this mean the crime is actually related to the color of their skin? Of course not. Does it make the action desirable? No. You also make the claim that ‘just because blacks are convicted of crimes at a far higher rate than the rest of the population does not prove that they actually commit crimes at a rate higher than the rest of the population.’ Tenuous, but technically true. However, if you look at the highest crime areas in the country, you find them mostly almost completely black. Unless you believe that the criminals and victims are imported into the area, this confirms the statement that the crime rate among blacks is indeed higher than the average. However, that a racial statistic is "true" does not show it is a characteristic of the race. It would once have been true that virtually all golfing events were dominated by whites. While both true and a racial statistic, it does not show that golfing skills are in any way related to being white. It's true that most black people are law abiding. It’s also true that crime is in no way DIRECTLY related to skin color. Neither point is relevant to Bennetts comment. Everyone: 1) Bennett is well known as loudly and publicly anti-abortion. It would not occur to him that that a comment including the words “you could abort every black baby” might be taken as his seriously advocating such abortions. 2) Bennett’s comment is not satire. It is hyperbole. They are different. 3) I agree that using race in the comment was unfortunate, in that so many people will (mostly unintentionally) distort the meaning and take offense. However, he was talking live, and responding to comments made by someone else. It’s not like he carefully worked out the best way to make the point.