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Martian · 09-16-2005, 12:20 AM

I mostly agree with Gilda.However, the visceral reaction can go as far as violence. It doesn't make it right, but it does make it in some circumstances more understandable. Would I behave in a violent fashion towards my girlfriend if I found out she was transgender? Possibly. Probaby not. A girl on the street? Hard to say. I'd like to think not, but that becomes a situation of high stress and that's when reactions become less predictable. The stress in this case is emotional. I do know that if I were to find out that my girlfriend was transgender I'd have to spend a long time thinking about it and figuring out what my position would be. Whether or not I'd break up the relationship, I'll never know.

So that's that. Like I said, emotional stress creates unpredictable response. That's one thing. It has nothing to do with this case. These boys spent a long time debating and planning whether or not she was transgender and what they'd do. The murder was premeditated from the sounds of it and it was in no way a reactionary response, which a response under duress is. They didn't find out and panic; they considered carefully, decided what they'd do if their suspicions were confirmed and then set up a situation where they could confirm or refute their suspicions.

Gilda, your main problem in understanding this is that you lack a point of reference. It's difficult for you to understand how her biological gender could factor into the issue because for you it's not an issue. You aren't on the male side and being put in that position. I do believe that a transgender girl should inform any potential partner prior to any consentual sex act, not only for her safety, but as a moral issue. Many (even most) men would not be comfortable to have sex with a girl knowing that she was born a guy and they deserve to know in advance that this is the case, due to further psychological and emotional trauma that could be caused by being deceived. Note that one of the boys broke down crying upon discovery, an emotional reactionary response that is indicative of a high stress situation. This was due to the confirmation and sexual identity issues raised by having sex with a biological male, even if it was unintentional. That was the sort of response I mentioned above. Her subsequent assault and murder was not, as it had been planned beforehand. Hell, two of the boys went home for shovels and picks prior to the murder. This wasn't in the moment or a crime of passion. They all knew what was going to happen.

Sorry if this is slightly incoherent. I've tried to state my opinion as clearly as I can but it's a complex issue and I'm not sure I'm expressing it properly.

09-16-2005, 12:20 AM	#60 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	I mostly agree with Gilda.However, the visceral reaction can go as far as violence. It doesn't make it right, but it does make it in some circumstances more understandable. Would I behave in a violent fashion towards my girlfriend if I found out she was transgender? Possibly. Probaby not. A girl on the street? Hard to say. I'd like to think not, but that becomes a situation of high stress and that's when reactions become less predictable. The stress in this case is emotional. I do know that if I were to find out that my girlfriend was transgender I'd have to spend a long time thinking about it and figuring out what my position would be. Whether or not I'd break up the relationship, I'll never know. So that's that. Like I said, emotional stress creates unpredictable response. That's one thing. It has nothing to do with this case. These boys spent a long time debating and planning whether or not she was transgender and what they'd do. The murder was premeditated from the sounds of it and it was in no way a reactionary response, which a response under duress is. They didn't find out and panic; they considered carefully, decided what they'd do if their suspicions were confirmed and then set up a situation where they could confirm or refute their suspicions. Gilda, your main problem in understanding this is that you lack a point of reference. It's difficult for you to understand how her biological gender could factor into the issue because for you it's not an issue. You aren't on the male side and being put in that position. I do believe that a transgender girl should inform any potential partner prior to any consentual sex act, not only for her safety, but as a moral issue. Many (even most) men would not be comfortable to have sex with a girl knowing that she was born a guy and they deserve to know in advance that this is the case, due to further psychological and emotional trauma that could be caused by being deceived. Note that one of the boys broke down crying upon discovery, an emotional reactionary response that is indicative of a high stress situation. This was due to the confirmation and sexual identity issues raised by having sex with a biological male, even if it was unintentional. That was the sort of response I mentioned above. Her subsequent assault and murder was not, as it had been planned beforehand. Hell, two of the boys went home for shovels and picks prior to the murder. This wasn't in the moment or a crime of passion. They all knew what was going to happen. Sorry if this is slightly incoherent. I've tried to state my opinion as clearly as I can but it's a complex issue and I'm not sure I'm expressing it properly. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame Last edited by Martian; 09-16-2005 at 12:22 AM..