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Originally Posted by pigglet
Gilda et al, I have a question about the bolded. You seem to be taking a position that "the nature of someone's genitals" is of no consequence...that it's almost a superfluous part of someone's identity.
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When your gender identity matches your physical sex, your genitals are often a fundamental part of your sexual identity. When your physical sex is at odds with your gender identity, as with a MTF transsexual, the genitals are, to use your word, superfluous to their sexual identity.
They were interacting with Gwen through talking to her, flirting with her, kissing, and eventually oral and anal sex. In all those activities, they related to each other in a male-female fashion and none of those activities, though often sexual, involve her genitals. Because they believed at the time the interaction took place that Gwen was female, this makes them heterosexual. They were attracted to her because they saw her as a pretty, sexy young woman, and that's likely what she got out of the relationship, a confirmation that she was an attractive young woman.
These were all heterosexual interactions, because in all cases both parties saw them as such. The later revelation of the nature of Gwen's genitals does not change this.
Were they justified in being upset? Sure, I'll go along with that. I'd also say they would have been entirely justified at evicting her from their home and cutting off any ties with her.
Perhaps it would be better to amend my previous statement from, "she caused them no harm" (which I still believe) to "Gwen had caused them no physical harm and was no threat to them physically, so they were in no way justified in any degree of violence towards her." There was no defense here, nothing to mitigate physical violence.
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I do not understand this position, in the light of your own gender-orientation, and what I would presume to be a recognition that the sexual gender orientation of an individual is something which is special, and which comprises a very important part of their core identity.
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean by sexual gender orientation or how my orientation is relevant. My physical sex and gender identity are female, and my orientation is homosexual, three separate, but related aspects of my sexuality. I recognize that for most of us, gender identity and orientation are important aspects of our sexuality. Heck, I believe that for many, it's a fundamental part of our core identity; it certainly is with me.
And it is also with a MTF transsexual, whose core gender identity is female. Gwen's orientation was pretty clearly to males, which, given that she saw herself as female, would make her heterosexual. If she is anything like the MTF transsexuals I know, she likely found her male genitals as abhorrent as her attackers did.
Her murderers saw themselves as heterosexual males, and this was apparently very important to them. That's reasonable and fair.
What I can't understand is how
her genitals are fundamental to
their sexual orientation, esepeciall given that her genitals were never a part of any of those interactions.
Is it reasonable and predictable that they were upset at this? Sure. Is violence a reasonable response to their anger? Hell no. That you are angry does not in any way justify or mitigate violent acts against a person who is not a physical threat to you.
Gilda