Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Are we seeing the collapse of America as a superpower?

Rodney · 09-04-2005, 10:02 PM

I'm going to restate the question a little: not, "Is America in decline," but rather, "Is America weak?"

It wouldn't seem likely, with our thousands of nuclear weapons and high-tech weaponry unmatched by anybody in the world. But consider the constraints we operate under:

* The government has made noises that it might try military force to take out Iran's nuclear capability. But all we can do is an air strike. We certainly can't invade Iran or any place else -- we're tied down in Iraq, bleeding people and money. And the world knows it. In fact, we can't do anything to Iran that affects the orderly production of oil in Iran. Iran knows it, and the example of Katrina shows everyone what might happen to the world economy if Iran's few million barrels a day was taken out of the oil supply.

* We can't actively oppose anybody, really, who supplies oil to us or to our allies. Pat Robertson aside, the gov't would like Hugo Chavez gone. But Venezuela supplies a good hunk of our oil, so how mad can we make him? Same with Saudi Arabia. Did they get off lightly in 9/11? Of course. Did we have any choice? Nope.

* We can't do much militarily about North Korea because China would not be pleased with military intervention. China has got the big veto.

* We can't P.O. China in any serious way, or raise serious protectionist barriers against Chinese imports, because they (and Japan, and some others) loan us the money we need to keep our government going and also to buy houses at cheap interest rates. Somebody recently joked that American economic growth these days largely consists of people making money buying houses off each other with money loaned by the Chinese. There's some scary truth in that.

* With our government increasingly depending on money from overseas to keep running (the deficit and all) how long before our overseas creditors start calling the shots? We're certainly giving them more and more power to do so. And if we piss them off enough that they don't buy our t-bonds, we can only keep going by either slashing the budget and the military, or printing more and more worthless money and diluting the dollar until it's devalued 50 or 75 percent, with a noticeable effect on our cost of living.

We've got all the cool weapons in the world, but we've bound ourselves in chains and are going deeper into debt each day.

Are we strong?

09-04-2005, 10:02 PM	#31 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	I'm going to restate the question a little: not, "Is America in decline," but rather, "Is America weak?" It wouldn't seem likely, with our thousands of nuclear weapons and high-tech weaponry unmatched by anybody in the world. But consider the constraints we operate under: * The government has made noises that it might try military force to take out Iran's nuclear capability. But all we can do is an air strike. We certainly can't invade Iran or any place else -- we're tied down in Iraq, bleeding people and money. And the world knows it. In fact, we can't do anything to Iran that affects the orderly production of oil in Iran. Iran knows it, and the example of Katrina shows everyone what might happen to the world economy if Iran's few million barrels a day was taken out of the oil supply. * We can't actively oppose anybody, really, who supplies oil to us or to our allies. Pat Robertson aside, the gov't would like Hugo Chavez gone. But Venezuela supplies a good hunk of our oil, so how mad can we make him? Same with Saudi Arabia. Did they get off lightly in 9/11? Of course. Did we have any choice? Nope. * We can't do much militarily about North Korea because China would not be pleased with military intervention. China has got the big veto. * We can't P.O. China in any serious way, or raise serious protectionist barriers against Chinese imports, because they (and Japan, and some others) loan us the money we need to keep our government going and also to buy houses at cheap interest rates. Somebody recently joked that American economic growth these days largely consists of people making money buying houses off each other with money loaned by the Chinese. There's some scary truth in that. * With our government increasingly depending on money from overseas to keep running (the deficit and all) how long before our overseas creditors start calling the shots? We're certainly giving them more and more power to do so. And if we piss them off enough that they don't buy our t-bonds, we can only keep going by either slashing the budget and the military, or printing more and more worthless money and diluting the dollar until it's devalued 50 or 75 percent, with a noticeable effect on our cost of living. We've got all the cool weapons in the world, but we've bound ourselves in chains and are going deeper into debt each day. Are we strong?