Quote:
|
Originally Posted by politicophile
Terrorism is ineffective? Tell that, first, to the families of the 9/11 victims. Then tell that to Zapatero and the other cowards in Spain. Terrorists kill people: they kill innocent people, which is the very thing you demonize the United States for doing. Let's try and avoid a double standard here.
|
I am talking about scale. Death is death. Death sucks. Do you understand that 1 million deaths sucks more than 1 thousand deaths?
Terrorism is evil. Terrorism is, compared to nations making War, incompetent at doing evil. Because War causes evil with far less effort and with far greater efficiency than Terrorism ever has.
If you cannot tell the different between millions of innocent people killed, and thousands of innocent people killed, I cannot help you understand it.
Yes, Terrorists kills people. I claim that, compared to the modern military, they are ineffective at it. Terrorism kills people retail, while modern war kills people wholesale.
I have never not demonized OBL. He's an evil fuck. But he's a gimpy, ineffective evil fuck if you compare him on a world-wide scale.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by politicophile
But Pat Robertson casually suggesting we off the President of Venezuela some how does measure on that scale?
|
Given the USAs history, the USA is quite likely to off the President of Venezuela. The USA has a pattern and habit of killing Latin American elected leaders and overthrowing their governments. The USA has tolerated one nation in it's hemisphere that is constistently openly defiant of it (Cuba), and it took the threat of nuclear holocaust for that to happen.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB4/
So, no, I do not consider Pat's comments to be idle threats. They fit the pattern of US foreign-policy behaviour in the region quite accurately.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by politicophile
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Yakk
Terrorism, as an offensive weapon, is ineffective and gimpy.
|
Soviets in Afghanistan, Americans in Vietnam - 'nuff said. |
Both instances of defensive guerilla warfare -- of people pushing occupiers off of the land they grew up on. I stated that Terrorism is an ineffective offensive weapon.
Quote:
|
A particularly smelly red herring, but nothing more. Pat Robertson, as a single American and not a political leader, cannot and should not be blamed for what you consider to be immoral actions of the United States. I don't blame OBL for forcing Saudi Arabian women to walk around in 100 degree heat wearing black shadoors.
|
Pat Robertson has influence over millions of Americans, a non-trivial percentage of political activists in the USA, a good chunk of the US House of Representatives and Senate, and is complemented and invited to visit by the president of the USA.
So, no, Pat Roberston is not just "some blowhard". Ayn Coultier is "some blowhard". Ayn Rand is "some blowhard". Pat Robertson is someone with influence.
Possibly Pat is in the midst of seeing his influence be destroyed. All the better. But claiming that Pat has no influence is disingenious.
I don't blame OBL for every act of terrorism in the world. But the weapon OBL is using -- terrorism -- is ineffective as an offensive weapon. The weapon Pat is waving around is not.
Quote:
|
Megadeaths are millions of deaths. The U.S. has participated in some conflicts where there were civilian megadeaths: WWI (I'm guessing), WWI, possibly Vietnam and Korea - that's all. Especially post-1960 (otherwise, you will invariably start talking about Native Americans or slavery), the United States has not been causing civilian megadeaths.
|
So, other than a number of examples, the US has not been causing civilian megadeaths. I'm sorry, but I won't brush Vietnam under the carpet.
Anyhow, the US is working on a new megadeath. What was the official US government Iraqi civilian bodycount for current 15 year old War in the Gulf? If not, have any decent estimates?
How does that compare to the American bodycount caused by OBL -- heck, caused by all terrorists -- in the same period of time?
I am getting this mental image of a pile of pebbles next to a mountain.
Scale matters.
OBL and Pat Robertson are the same -- people who use religion to generate hate. The difference is, Pat Robertson has influence over people who are far more deadly than OBL does.