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Old 08-06-2005, 10:22 AM   #71 (permalink)
ubertuber
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Aladdin Sane - First off, this thread is not about literacy tests. It is about 'literacy tests', or as you astutely pointed out, civics tests. Secondly, a literacy test wouldn't eliminate many people.The CIA world factbook lists a literacy rate in the US of 97%, while George Mason University figures 60.3% voter turnout in the 2004 presidential election. I respectfully submit that many of the 3% who can't read are part of the 39.7% who didn't vote. Of course, in the last election that 3% could have swung the result, if they had somehow arrived at polling places they couldn't read the directions to, after correctly filling out voter registration forms they couldn't read, and of course, managing to vote in a unified block on a ballot containing names they couldn't read. I think the difficulties built into the system for illiterate people pose enough of a barrier.

Secondly, on your points regarding the history of suffrage:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladdin Sane
First of all, when our ancestors used the rallying cry of "No taxation without representation," they certainly weren't advocating universal suffrage. In colonial society, only land-owning white males were permitted to vote.
For the most part these were the only people paying taxes until the stamp tax, tea tax, and other excise taxes on goods were instituted. Secondly, I don't argue that we should create ONLY the system that the framers envisioned. I do think that we should not descend below the basic principles that were good. That means extending the right to vote as much as is practical and allowing people affected by laws the opportunity to select the representatives who make those laws. A common theme among those founders was that the independence was worth pursuing because the industry and worth of the American people was intrinsic and vigorous enough to sustain a nation. In other words, when they wrote "we, the people" they were indicating a certain substantial amount of faith in those people to negotiate their own futures after independence was won. That is how I still see this country, and I would not describe honoring a bag lady's vote as a suicide pact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ustwo
Somewhere I read that 30-40% of the eligible voters pay no income tax, and that the number is on the rise. Why should they care about fiscal responsibility, tax rates, or the like, they have no investment in the system?
Ustwo, respectfully, I don't believe that for a second. Not to mention the fact that this ambiguous statistic also ignores social security, medicare/medicaid, sales tax, property tax, excise tax, etc... I suspect that asking for some documentation would send this thread veering off course though, as it is more about preventing people from voting than it is about who pays what kind of taxes. Suffice it to say that the percentage of people who escape ALL form of tax is low enough that I think the (alleged) evil of their participation in the voting process does not warrant compromising a fundamental right in this country.
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