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Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Originally Posted by martinguerre
I think all the discussion of comparison to drugs, or whatever...is all a smokescreen. Either you think this is wrong, or you think it's right. You can make excuses for the state, or you can stand with the victims. Abdicating the idea of justice to whoever holds enough guns to call themselves a government is not a stand of moral responsbility. And Cyn...your comparisons are getting even worse. First Nambla, now drug kingpins? I'm sorry, but your choices in metaphors are really out of order.
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Martin, LOOK at the CONCEPTS of what I am posting NOT THE EXACT WORDS. Again, you are looking way too close to see the forest for the trees right in front of you.
cj posted that if there is a law that says 'breaking this law = this consequence" that's the POINT I am making with mentioning SE Asia and Singapore again. I am FURTHER stating the LOGIC of that point and showing EXAMPLES where it happens in the world. AGAIN THE CONCEPT not the ACTIONS but the CONCEPT since that is what we are talking about.
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Not making human rights violation reports? That's not an issue? I'm going to ask you to explain before i respond. I'm reading this in a very, very negative light, and i'd like to see if i'm wrong to be perceiving it this way. All i'll say is that the US records human rights violations around the world so that in our dialouge with those nations, we can show concern, and attempt to lobby those governments to change. Significant trade pressure, military assistance, diplomatic attention have brought significant results in many parts of the world. Attention to the treatment of Christians in China is a good example. If they are not recorded by the State Dept. they will not be addressed. This is why i think it's critical. It also affirms to people here that the Gov. takes the situation seriously. Why do you think it's not important?
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I did not say that it's not important. I did not say it's not an issue. Please point out on your monitor where you read that because on mine I don't see where I typed those letters.
I'm stating that FIGURES and STATISTICS are easily manipulated after they are collected, they are even more manipulated during the intial collecting phase. Police departments do it all the time to obfusicate the reality of crimes. Here they clearly have 3 different ways to make a statistic out of it, bias homosexual crime, capital punishment for criminal act, or nothing at all. This isn't a clear cut as Matthew Shepard's situation, but the person keeping the records has choices to make and as a human being can make choices that you or I disagree with.
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i think it does matter that it's against queers.
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And I'm going with the BOTTOM paragraph. I am not saying that it doesn't matter that it's against queers, I'm saying that to say,"LOOOK LOOOK how horrible this is because a queer was attacked. This is an outrage" when you don't carry the same outrage for regular people is the challenge.
This is exactly where you and I diverge.
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picking on anyone is wrong. picking on the one who has no one to defend them is all the more terrible in that they never had a chance, and suffer not just the consequence of oppression but do so believing that they have no allies, no person to stand for them against the force of the state.
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This is exactly where you and I stand on the same spot.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
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