Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Gay teen sent to fundamentalist Christian program for gays

martinguerre · 07-19-2005, 08:47 PM

cynthetiq...i think that comparison is quite shallow. we all make judgements about what is beyond the pale, and what is acceptable in others even if we personally disagree with it. comparing me to a bunch of homophobes is not a cheap shot, it's simply an ineffective one. i might assume that you beleive it is not the right of a parent to cannibalize their offspring for food. i believe it is not right to teach a child to hate who they are on account of sexual orientation. we're all drawing lines. your argument seems to be assuming that your line is a neutral or natural one...and i don't think that assumption is justified.

i think you overstate the virtues of tolerance. carried to an extreme, it is just as dangerous as the cultural despotism that you are taking issue with. also betrayed in your thinking is a view of children as chattle. you are only advocating tolerance and respect of the other so far as it recognizes the right of the parent to dispose of the child in whatever way they see fit. IMO, there is not a recognition of the child as equally valued as a moral agent.

would you support parents who sent depressed kids to camps that told them that God was really angry with them for being sad? is that just the parent's freedom? does it always show respect for another to abdicate moral judgement on their actions? what these folks are doing is teaching their own children to hate who they are. there is every reason to beleive that self-hate focused on sexual idenity is strongly linked with suicide.

why do you believe i ought to let that pass without comment?

as a post script. i take some issue with your vocabulary as well. i don't use the word lifestyle, as i think it confuses the issue. lifestyle implies choice, and is functionally vague. for instance, a person may have a chaste lifestyle or very active one...but neither of these choices depend on a non-chosen sexual orientation.

07-19-2005, 08:47 PM	#34 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	cynthetiq...i think that comparison is quite shallow. we all make judgements about what is beyond the pale, and what is acceptable in others even if we personally disagree with it. comparing me to a bunch of homophobes is not a cheap shot, it's simply an ineffective one. i might assume that you beleive it is not the right of a parent to cannibalize their offspring for food. i believe it is not right to teach a child to hate who they are on account of sexual orientation. we're all drawing lines. your argument seems to be assuming that your line is a neutral or natural one...and i don't think that assumption is justified. i think you overstate the virtues of tolerance. carried to an extreme, it is just as dangerous as the cultural despotism that you are taking issue with. also betrayed in your thinking is a view of children as chattle. you are only advocating tolerance and respect of the other so far as it recognizes the right of the parent to dispose of the child in whatever way they see fit. IMO, there is not a recognition of the child as equally valued as a moral agent. would you support parents who sent depressed kids to camps that told them that God was really angry with them for being sad? is that just the parent's freedom? does it always show respect for another to abdicate moral judgement on their actions? what these folks are doing is teaching their own children to hate who they are. there is every reason to beleive that self-hate focused on sexual idenity is strongly linked with suicide. why do you believe i ought to let that pass without comment? as a post script. i take some issue with your vocabulary as well. i don't use the word lifestyle, as i think it confuses the issue. lifestyle implies choice, and is functionally vague. for instance, a person may have a chaste lifestyle or very active one...but neither of these choices depend on a non-chosen sexual orientation. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16