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Banned
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Originally Posted by moosenose
Personally, I'd think you would be more concerned about the mods or admins than me. After all, if you post something illegal (like, after explaining how you had broken the law as an act of civil disobedience, and then spent six or seven years as a fugitive from justice before being pardoned, and then encouraged others to commit what some would call "acts of civil disobedience" and the rest of us would refer to as "felonies"...) THEY are the ones with an incentive to report you, if for no other reason than to avoid criminal liability for themselves. Take, for example, if somebody repeatedly posted pictures in the EZ of a 30 something year old man having sex with an obviously very underage female. That would obviously be a criminal act, yes? What do you think their response would be? After all, the record of the criminal act would be on their servers, so just deleting the posts without reporting it to the appropriate authorities could be construed as obstruction of justice or various other charges of a similar nature depending on the locality. They obviously couldn't legally leave the posts up, either, lest they become guilty of distribution of child pornography. So what would they do? I haven't spoken with them about such a scenario, but I think it is a virtual given that they would do the right thing and report it to the appropriate authorities.
I'm sure that you are well aware that the First Amendment freedom of speech is not absolute. Certain speech alone can be criminal. The standard example of this is "falsely yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater". As another example that I am certain you are aware of, it's illegal to threaten certain high-ranking governmental officials (not me, I'm not "high ranking"), even in jest, and the enforcement agency of such crimes is both very good at enforcing that law, and not known for it's sense of humor in such matters.
Just out of curiosity, if you had a police officer move in next door to your house, would you assume that he did so as part of a grand governmental plot to inhibit your criminality? If you see an off-duty cop driving on the highway, is it "Tha Man" trying to "keep you down", or is it a guy who works for the government on the way to the grocery store or work or whatever?
My presence here is not part of my job description. I have never, EVER accessed this site from work, because to do so would be a violation of my agency's internet use policy. I'm not a Federal LEO. And I doubt VERY seriously that you live within my jurisdiction. So I'd postulate that I am NOT any more of a "threat" to your dissenting in this forum than any other person with email or a telephone would be, unless you should consider my "personal network" of friends and professional associates to be a "threat" to you, which I don't think a rational person would. In fact, as I discussed above, I'm far less of a "threat" to you than any of the mods or admin are, since they have a very large vested interest in keeping you from posting illegalities here, and I do not.
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You have it wrong, IMO, moosenose, about you (your POV and how you convey it here) being "far less of a threat to me", than the "mods or admin" at TFP are. The mindset that it takes to write what you wrote in your last post, combined with your opinion that your point of view is reasonable, or even "American" <b>"then encouraged others to commit what some would call "acts of civil disobedience" and the rest of us would refer to as "felonies"</b>, is indicative of the gulf that exists between you and those of us who have an understanding and an admiration for the words contained in Thomas Jefferson's <a href="http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/declaration_transcript.html">"Declaration of Independence."</a>
If you recall, you responded to my comments and examples as to my opinion:
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host wrote:
I am growing more concerned about your participation on this forum and the
veiled but obvious tone of intimidation that I perceive in your posts, especially the ones that you direct toward (at) me. Are you here to threaten, investigate, prosecute, or all three ?
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Is it your opinion, moosenose, that you could draw an analogy between my "crimes", as you label them, and a description of the activities of a child molestor, into an argument that would persuade anyone that your post is
"reasonable"? The only consistancy is that your tone is still threatening and designed to discourage discussion and protest.
You are not "Federal LEO", yet you still intone that you have a "jurisdiction".
You mention your ""personal network" of friends and professional associates",
but you state that it would not be rational of me to view them as a "threat".
Why mention them at all, unless it is to try to "influence me"? Heaven knows
what resources are at their disposal, especailly the "professionals" in your network, to deal with the likes of me, if called upon.
Consider that, in your own words, when you try to shift my focus from you, because of confrontational statements you've directed at me, to those who you perceive as most likely to "inform" on me, you likely demonstrate to more than a few of us here, how removed you are from what we consider being an "American" is; i.e., a non-violent, informed, reasonable, tolerant person.
I would not assume anything untoward about a neighbor who was employed as a policeman, or about another motorist who was an "off-duty cop", to use two examples that you cited, unless one of them directed something like your
post at me:
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Originally Posted by moosenose
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The tone in your posts is inappropriate here, and in Amercia, from my point of
view. Nothing that I said in the following three quoted posts on this thread,
warranted the following from you. You still do not recognize it, judging by the tone, technique, and content in your last post.
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Originally Posted by moosenose
So let me see if I've got this right...there's a guy who says he committed a felony, and then spent seven years living as a fugitive from justice, who thinks he did the right thing, and is encouraging others to do the same. Then there's another guy who says "breaking the law is bad", so he's the bad guy here. Does that about sum it up?
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/newrepl...eply&p=1735417 |
moosenose wrote the preceding post in response to my words in these three posts:
Shoukd We "Move On" or Take to the Streets? http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=86476
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...73&postcount=1
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Originally Posted by host
I look at the stench kicked up by Gore v. Bush 2000 and the SCOTUS Ruling,
the Unlikelyhood of Nebraska Senator (R) Chuck Hagel's 1996 election victory,
And now this latest.....I gotta tell ya, people.....I'm havin' trouble "dumbing down" enough to simply "move on !!!!!!!!!!!!" ...........Any advice ???????
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http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...4&postcount=11
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Originally Posted by host
I believe you are voicing sincere concern, daswig......but it is misplaced for at least two reasons:
1.)It is too late for me to "fuck up my life in record time". I am past 50 years of age and my big moment of protest happened 35 years ago when I refused to register for the draft. I was never issued a draft card. I waited seven years until Jimmy Carter's blanket pardon to get my life back.
Right after 9/11 Ari Fleischer warned all of us to "watch what we say". Is that
the kind of country you want for your child to live in? What is more important than freely exercising my right to speak in protest of possible widespread election fraud in close presidential balloting?
Sorry......Ari......you're wrong, and it is always the right time to publicly label your remarks as un-American, outrageous, and you disgraced yourself !
2.)I wish that you were not so apparently entrenched in a belief system that prohibits you from reacting more like Colin Powell and the patriotic citizens of Ukraine did when they reviewed uncannily similar reports about discrepancies between reported polling results and independent exit polls.
daswig, is there any line to official corruption and hypocrisy that you will not cross? Have you ever given any thought as to your own high limit?
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http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...5&postcount=32
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Originally Posted by host
The title of this thread was inspired by these words, at the bottom of the last qutoe box, in my last post:
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pro-Yushchenko lawmaker Petro Poroshenko accused the election commission of carrying out a coup d'etat. "Now the streets will speak. Now the people will speak," he said.
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The last time that I was was faced with the perception that my government
was engaged in a massive and criminal course of deception, crimes against the constitution, and in the planning and ordering of war crimes at the level of the federal executive branch, I was much younger and more idealistic, and I faced a deadline to decide whether to voluntarily make myself available to
the government as a complying candidate for participation in the war.
<a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317910/">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317910/</a> is the link to information about the movie, the Fog of War, an excellent film in the way it examines Robert Macnamara's views of the morality of war. He was the secretary of defense who was most responsible officials in the decision making and in the prosecution of the Vietnam war.
The bottom line is that in response to what I perceived to be signifigant crimes committed by the U.S. government, I refused to participate, and I lived an "underground" life for over seven years to avoid arrest and prosecution of a felony punishable by 5 years in federal prison. Hindsight has demonstrated that I probably made the correct moral choice; I had to live with myself then, as I do now. The war was wrong, Nixon was a criminal president on many fronts, as was his atty general John Mitchell, and Nixon's two top assistants, Haldeman, and Ehrlichman, all three convicted of felonies and served time in federal prison. NS Advisor and later Sec'ty of State Henry Kissinger is to this day regarded as a war criminal, unable to be accepted as Bush's appointment as chair of the 9/11 commission.
I intended this thread to evolve into a discussion of when is "enough is enough"? Do we wait until a third presidential election is stolen? Were the last two elections stolen?
daswig seems to be throwing his "weight" around, here. Judge for yourself whether he is communicating a friendly warning because he "knows what he knows" about "big brother's" possible reaction to a discussion like this, because of his position as an "insider" in a state dept. of justice.
Anyway.......whatever his intent, he has achieved the effect of influencing me to "watch what I say", and I think that you know how I feel about that.
Post your thoughts if you think that my disclosed background disqualifies me from initiating a discussion about when the right time might be to decide whether the federal executive branch "fixed" it's election, and if it did, what the average citizen should do in response. Shouldn't the Bush administration be held to the same standard that it held the Ukranians to, last December? Should we demand nothing less than the type of investigation that Powell demanded of the Ukraine, and if the Bush administration refuses, then what?
The challenge is the same one that the founding fathers faced. Now seems to be the time for massive, non-violent protests that demand a transparent, non-partisan investigation of last november's vote in Ohio and in Florida, as a start. Protests in the form of hunger strikes, boycotts of products and services of corporations that signifigantly supported Bush Cheney 2004, and a
media campaign to advertise the inconsistancy of the Bush admin. response to exit poll disparity in the Ukraine, vs. the non-response to the same phenomena in the U.S.
Our founding fathers intended government to be always intimidated by the citizenry, not as daswig seems to project, the other way around.
It seems to me that we must have this discussion to be credible, responsible, measured, patriots. |
Last edited by host; 07-12-2005 at 11:11 PM..
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